is it worth it? I dont mean bigger discs, just better. The car is up for new discs and pads all round and if its worth spending a few quid more for a bit of performance then fair enough. I know Mick Dundee has ebc pads and discs, and have seen the Black Diamond coated(think thats right) discs on lmf web site. I guess the coating is to stop the rust?

I had ebc discs on a bike and they didnt rust at all and gave much more grab/power over stock. Will they give the same results on a car? Or am i just waisting money as the servo does the work? Im thinking vx discs and pads at worst, dont see any point in Brembo etc?

Any thoughts?

Cheers

Chris :-)

I'm sure there are plenty of diehards here who will swear that genuine Vx parts cannot be beaten, but for me personally it would be a toss up over cost versus performance versus longevity.

Yes, EBC are good (although I have managed to cook them in the past), and Billet are even better......it really comes down to "you get what you pay for" IMO.

How much is the EBC setup going to cost you versus genuine Vx?

Other thing is some of the performance ones (like Mike's) need to warm up to work properly.

Dunno if this matters to you  :-/

good fluid, vx disks and pads provide me more than enough stopping power, and i'm not exactly light footed.

Much racing style driving will soon see em smoking though, as was evident at the york meet  ;D

The only reason they have to warm up is cos they're track pads, eg red stuff, should have really fitted green stuff pads :-X

Unfortunatley i don't drive an Omega, so have no real experiance oftheir brakes, but i'll try my best.

'uprated' pads do work, i've got some Mintex M1144's on my 205 at the mo, and know of countless other uses of them. the main reason you'd go for them is if you feel you need better brakes. the reason i've stuck with just pads and disks, not larger dia or uprated calipers, is i don't like braking hard, so even if i could, i wouldn't. i don't know how that equates to such a big heavy car though.
Main drawbacks are price over motorfactors type pads, possible wear issues-if it's a daily driver to taz up the motorways they may not be worth it, useability-some need to warmed up to work properly, when they do they will be good though, mine squeal when cold, which can be embarasing in built up areas.

As for disks. Most are still some form of iron or non-stainless steel. any coatings quickly dissappear and are therefore pointless, grooves can be good as they help expel gasses that generate under braking, same with drilled, but drilled can raise stress and concerntrate the propogation of cracks. there is no real need for grooved unless you're pushing the brakes to the max, and a good set of plain disks can be just as effective, especially with modern, high quaility pads that generate less gas build up.

As for bike disks not rusting,they'll be Stainless steel. try some cast iron (being a better rotor meduim) and they will be orange, regardless of make.

Hope that's of some help and there's no sucking of eggs.

MikeDundee wrote on 26. May 2009 at 08:29:

The only reason they have to warm up is cos they're track pads, eg red stuff, should have really fitted green stuff pads :-X

Have to say I disagree Mike.
I had Redstuff fitted by Hispec - they told me that the Omega was too heavy a car for Green stuff.
They fitted them with EBC discs. (there is now a yellow pad and I might have seen an another - dunno what they intended us is track? fast road? :-??

They were a rubbish combination and I'd never use them again.

Ebc have subsequently brought out an improved disc but I wouldn't go near 'em.

I now use Courtenays groved disc with Ferodo pads, a combination that I'm very happy with!

Lots of people here are very happy with Vx stuff.
All depends on what you're after and what you prepared to cough I guess.

Matthew

on my last car (v6 mondeo please dont flame me lol)
i had ebc groved discs and pads, and even though they were very good at stoping the car they were noisy when cold and the pads wear very very quickly if you only use your car around town and are heavy footed  :y

The first question you need to ask is in what way are the current brakes not meeting your needs?

If the pedal feel is reasonable, you can lock the wheels without unduly high or low pedal force in all conditions and you are not cooking them then I would see no reason to "upgrade".

There is normally a compromise with upgraded brakes. You may, for example, be buying a pad material that is harder and withstands higher temperatures but this invariably means the brakes will need a bit of heat to get working properly.

IME, GreenStuff and M1144s are relatively soft pads designed for light cars. They are great on a Westfield but I wouldn't fit them to an Omega. They may well give better feel but if you're going to drive the car remotely hard you'll probably cook them.

A pad that's hard enough to put up with serious abuse in an Omega would probably need some warming up to work accceptably well resulting in inconsistent feel. Some don't mind this in a road car but I'd rather know that, when I've been cruising up the motorway for an hour and the brakes are stone cold, I know what's going to happen if I have to stand on them in a hurry.

I will say that, having put genuine GM front pads and disks on my car recently they squeal under moderate braking when warmed up despite several applications of copper grease and are generating much more brake dust than the previous set. Not sure if GM have changed their offering or whether it's me. :-/

Kevin

thanks guys,

the main issue i have with the brakes is the lack of power. They feel dead or wooden as standard, as did my 2.5. press the pedal and not a great deal happens until real pressure is applied. Other people driving my car feel the same, glolf lexus and bmw owners all commented" whats wrong with the breaks?" or similar.

Now i realise this is just part of the omega relaxed driving/passenger orintated design brief and i beleive is more governed by the servo than anything else, but if this can be improved a few percent by spending a few more quid on discs and pads then it would be worth it in my view.

As you probably know i have more experience with bikes than cars, on a bike the first thing i would do is fit ebc HH cintered pads on a road bike(not available on cars it seems) these give more power, last longer than stock, have a copper looking drilled shim on the back to prevent squeel and stop some of the heat transfer to the pistons and hence the fluid preventing fade as well.( provided the master cylinder is half decent,ie. not nissen) its a win all round part except on price.

I would also fit braided steal break lines, Goodridge or similar, to stop the rubber hoses expanding when hot, giving a marked improvment in feel.

But bikes dont have servo assist.


i see no point what so ever in paying more money for "better breaks" on a car that dont work when cold.

Also if they sqeal i will not be pleased. I hate that... >:(

I would say stick to GM disks, as aftermarket items seem to be prone to going uneven. Perhaps experiment a little with the pads?

Can you recall if my brakes felt any different? Guess we didn't really "test" them that well. ::) They had almost new GM stuff at the time.

Green stuff / 1144s would probably give you plenty of feel and a bit more of the bite you seem to be lacking but I wonder how long they'd last in an Omega. Probably be Ok for most road use, TBH.

It's also worth taking some care with bedding new components in. I tend to drive the car gently and in such a way as to avoid unnecessary heavy braking for a week or two (say 100 miles or so) then, get them up to working temperature with normal driving and give them a few stops from 60 ish down to walking pace on a suitably quiet road. Repeat this a couple of times with some normal driving to allow them to cool in between and after, before parking up.

Pads can develop a "wooden" feel if they have previously been cooked or the disk has become glazed, but I'm sure I'm teaching you to suck eggs at this point..  ;)

Kevin

on ebc web site i make it £320 for full car set with grooved fronts and green pads(wont be using those)
£246 with non grooved front discs. both vented.

genuine vx £87.10 front axle
                  £110.56 rear axle
total vx vented discs and pads all round 197.66(trade club price allegedly)

Kevin Wood wrote on 26. May 2009 at 12:09:

I would say stick to GM disks, as aftermarket items seem to be prone to going uneven. Perhaps experiment a little with the pads? Can you recall if my brakes felt any different? Guess we didn't really "test" them that well. ::) They had almost new GM stuff at the time. Green stuff / 1144s would probably give you plenty of feel and a bit more of the bite you seem to be lacking but I wonder how long they'd last in an Omega. Probably be Ok for most road use, TBH. It's also worth taking some care with bedding new components in. I tend to drive the car gently and in such a way as to avoid unnecessary heavy braking for a week or two (say 100 miles or so) then, get them up to working temperature with normal driving and give them a few stops from 60 ish down to walking pace on a suitably quiet road. Repeat this a couple of times with some normal driving to allow them to cool in between and after, before parking up. Pads can develop a "wooden" feel if they have previously been cooked or the disk has become glazed, but I'm sure I'm teaching you to suck eggs at this point..  ;) Kevin

Dont recall the brakes at all, i was more struck by the accuracy and quality of the suspension to be honest.

Agree re GM discs i think, although i am intersted in the ebc disc material re anti rust but i think, if my bike discs where anything to go by, the material may be softer, giving the pads a better chance to bite into them but possibly not lasting as long as steel...? will do some more home work but will probably go gm vented.

ihad ebc black and green on a bike, they lasted a week and a month respectively, before going for sintered which worked well, so does not inspire me to use greens on a car never mind a big lump like the omega.

some calls to make i think. :y

chrisgixer wrote on 26. May 2009 at 12:13:

on ebc web site i make it £320 for full car set with grooved fronts and green pads(wont be using those) £246 with non grooved front discs. both vented. genuine vx £87.10 front axle                   £110.56 rear axle total vx vented discs and pads all round 197.66(trade club price allegedly)

Genuine VX standard setup when I bought a full set of disks and pads last week total came to something like £160 ex vat on TC, I *think* the fronts were £75 and rears were £85 , or not far off that anyway. Fronts are bigger but cheaper as they come as a kit , pads included. Rears you buy the pads and disks seperately.

I have to say since having the fronts done brake feel has improved massively , but that may be due to having the brake fluid changed as well...

ETA: Dont use redstuff pads on the Omega. I have them on the TVR and when they are cold you might as well open the door and stick your foot on the ground, it would be more effective. For Example If I have been on a motorway run and exit the sliproad at a reasonable lick I can guarantee I wont be stoping at the roundabout , foot to the floor and car coasting along nicely ! The trick is to either approach junctions slowly or make sure you keep the brakes hot. And when I say hit I mean really cooking, if they are just warm they are still poor. Applying them gently on and holding on for the last motorway mile does the trick.

Reds are track day material and if you dont keep them hot you will find them very scary.

ETA: Found the receipt Rear Disks and Pads £72.30 , Front Disks and pads £72.83  total £145.13 + Vat = £170.53

MV6Matt wrote on 26. May 2009 at 08:52:

MikeDundee wrote on 26. May 2009 at 08:29: The only reason they have to warm up is cos they're track pads, eg red stuff, should have really fitted green stuff pads :-X Have to say I disagree Mike. I had Redstuff fitted by Hispec - they told me that the Omega was too heavy a car for Green stuff. They fitted them with EBC discs. (there is now a yellow pad and I might have seen an another - dunno what they intended us is track? fast road? :-?? They were a rubbish combination and I'd never use them again. Ebc have subsequently brought out an improved disc but I wouldn't go near 'em. I now use Courtenays groved disc with Ferodo pads, a combination that I'm very happy with! Lots of people here are very happy with Vx stuff. All depends on what you're after and what you prepared to cough I guess. Matthew

The red stuff pads are fine and do work very well, interesting comment as remember when I took the car to Kwik fit for a new tyre and the bloke commented that the red stuff pads eg ceramic should not be fitted against a steel brake disc ;D ;D, despite EBC recommending red/green etc for use with the discs :y   

I've used EBC for some years - no problems encountered!

Hi used EBC disks and greenstuff pads better than oiginals . thay say dont do any hard braking for first 100 miles .and give off little dust .done about 10,000 miles just had new tyres and pads have little ware and i tow trailers and caravan so i brake hard a lot of the time

When I first bought my Miggy I immediately purchased a set of Black Diamond brake pads, as I was off the 'ring and was pretty sure that I'd destroy the pads there. However, my car being ex-Plod, was still fitted with Pagid pads. Impossible to fade, even when coming down from 150mph on the Autobahn in practically an emergency stop. Took abuse all day long.

    I've also acquired a set of genuine GM pads and discs for the front. The current Pagids have a fair bit of life still in them but the discs have seen better days, so I'll be fitting the GM parts soon. I have been unable to find Miggy Pagid pads listed anywhere, so I'll have to make a note of the serial numebr once I remove them, as they are brilliant for using when pushing on. Obviously they need some heat in them before they are working properly, which is why I'll replace with GM parts - but keep the Pagids for any track work. Unopened set of Black Diamond pads for sale soon I guess!

went for genuine vented discs and pads all round in the end. Total bill including 1 wear sensor(the guy didnt know if there is one on the back as well?)and 65 ah battery. £296.28 incl expensis. :-)

By the way, the battery listing for the 3.2 says 85 ah according to burnham garage. The listing is wrong. 85 ah battery will never fit in a million years. It about 4 inches too long. Got 65ah gm item in the end.

chrisgixer wrote on 01. Jun 2009 at 20:37:

went for genuine vented discs and pads all round in the end. Total bill including 1 wear sensor(the guy didnt know if there is one on the back as well?)and 65 ah battery. £296.28 incl expensis. :-) By the way, the battery listing for the 3.2 says 85 ah according to burnham garage. The listing is wrong. 85 ah battery will never fit in a million years. It about 4 inches too long. Got 65ah gm item in the end.

see... http://i344.photobucket.com/albums/p326/chrisgixer/01062009634.jpg

burger me! That's a big battery. :o

I have heard very good things about Pagid brake pads from fellow kit car enthusiasts. Unfortunately they are not cheap. :o

Kevin