Hi all,

Please can I ask for some opinions/advice.

I travelled up to Swindon tonight to have an initial look at Janine's 2.2 16v, that won't start.

It's turning over as if it has compression.

It has a spark at the plugs.

There is a spurt of fuel from the rail when you press the relief valve in, indicating fuel.

The failure mode was - fine one min, wouldn't start the next.

I attached the OP-Com, and fault codes that were returned, were:

P1526 - (8) Throttle Position no Adaption - Present

P1550 - (4) Electronic Throttle Control Power Management - Present

P1650 - (4) Service Vehicle Soon Light Voltage Low - Present

I cleared these codes out - but when you turn ignition off,  back on, and read again - the codes come back. Sometimes they don't come back until you crank the engine again.

This is as far as I could get tonight given the dark/time constraints, and I plan to look in more detail, but can anyone give any advice re. the fault codes, and how this might relate to the non starting?

I have reseated all visible connectors, incl the DBW one, to no avail.

I also tried starting the engine with the DBW connector off (I know it will run, but not rev, in this circumstance), and it wouldn't start this way either.

I'd appreciate opinions on how to take this forward.

Many thanks in anticipation.

Kind regards,
James

clean the plugs up on the faults see if that helps, if not try restart take battery off, and leave for a hour then put back on somtimes works.

hi is it a auto box mig cheers ian

freecall666 wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 22:35:

clean the plugs up on the faults see if that helps, if not try restart take battery off, and leave for a hour then put back on somtimes works.

Hi Freecall,

Plugs had a good spark, I'm not convinced cleaning them would make the difference between starting or not.

Also, I'm not aware taking the battery off would make any difference, on the basis the ECU will store the codes in non-volatile memory (and were cleared with the diag kit)

The battery has also been off all day.

Many thanks for the suggestions though.

Kind regards,
James

idc62 wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 22:37:

hi is it a auto box mig cheers ian

Hi Ian,

Yes, it is an automatic.

Kind regards,
James

JamesV6CDX wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 22:38:

freecall666 wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 22:35: clean the plugs up on the faults see if that helps, if not try restart take battery off, and leave for a hour then put back on somtimes works. Hi Freecall, Plugs had a good spark, I'm not convinced cleaning them would make the difference between starting or not. Also, I'm not aware taking the battery off would make any difference, on the basis the ECU will store the codes in non-volatile memory (and were cleared with the diag kit) The battery has also been off all day. Many thanks for the suggestions though. Kind regards, James

sorry ment the plugs that have faults, not spark plugs, look for white cream on them, also the seal's on them if the rubber gose water can get it and do some damage.

freecall666 wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 22:41:

JamesV6CDX wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 22:38: freecall666 wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 22:35: clean the plugs up on the faults see if that helps, if not try restart take battery off, and leave for a hour then put back on somtimes works. Hi Freecall, Plugs had a good spark, I'm not convinced cleaning them would make the difference between starting or not. Also, I'm not aware taking the battery off would make any difference, on the basis the ECU will store the codes in non-volatile memory (and were cleared with the diag kit) The battery has also been off all day. Many thanks for the suggestions though. Kind regards, James sorry ment the plugs that have faults, not spark plugs, look for white cream on them, also the seal's on them if the rubber gose water can get it and do some damage.

Hi Freecall,

Many thanks for clarifying.

I did remove and re-seat the electrical connectors in question, all appeared to be dry and fine.

Kind regards,
James

JamesV6CDX wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 22:32:

Hi all, Please can I ask for some opinions/advice. I travelled up to Swindon tonight to have an initial look at Janine's 2.2 16v, that won't start. It's turning over as if it has compression. It has a spark at the plugs. There is a spurt of fuel from the rail when you press the relief valve in, indicating fuel. The failure mode was - fine one min, wouldn't start the next. I attached the OP-Com, and fault codes that were returned, were: P1526 - (8) Throttle Position no Adaption - Present P1550 - (4) Electronic Throttle Control Power Management - Present P1650 - (4) Service Vehicle Soon Light Voltage Low - PresentI cleared these codes out - but when you turn ignition off,  back on, and read again - the codes come back. Sometimes they don't come back until you crank the engine again. This is as far as I could get tonight given the dark/time constraints, and I plan to look in more detail, but can anyone give any advice re. the fault codes, and how this might relate to the non starting? I have reseated all visible connectors, incl the DBW one, to no avail. I also tried starting the engine with the DBW connector off (I know it will run, but not rev, in this circumstance), and it wouldn't start this way either. I'd appreciate opinions on how to take this forward. Many thanks in anticipation. Kind regards, James

just checked and these are all on same line of volts. could be from battery to main fuse box bad earth or live wire.

hi james
i had a lot of those symptoms on my 2.0ltr 4 pot 16v changed cam and crank sensor no go changed dis still same would run then not would not start then would and would stall and not start turned out to be auto box switch full of gooey sludge stripped and cleaned with thinners dried with hair drier not had an ounce of trouble in 3 mths hope this helps cheers ian :y

idc62 wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 22:50:

hi james i had a lot of those symptoms on my 2.0ltr 4 pot 16v changed cam and crank sensor no go changed dis still same would run then not would not start then would and would stall and not start turned out to be auto box switch full of gooey sludge stripped and cleaned with thinners dried with hair drier not had an ounce of trouble in 3 mths hope this helps cheers ian :y

Hi Ian,

Sorry if I'm wrong, but I'm not sure how the Automatic gearbox selector switch would prevent the engine from actually starting at all?

Kind regards,
James

it does alot more to your car than you think and all that sludge mess up electrics through it wish id gone to it first on mine the repair would of only cost time not the three parts i bought never mind its only money ;D ;D cheers ian

its also a start inhibitor switch i think 4 little tangs to make contact through the goo

The codes point to a problem with the drive-by-wire throttle. Could be it's not responding to the ECU and therefore can't open far enough to start it from cold.

First step is to give it a good clean and make sure the throttle moves freely by hand and isn't mechanically jammed. If that's to no avail double check the connections at the throttle and ECU end and the wiring between.

There is a procedure to follow in TIS - checking resistance of some connections at the ECU connector and applying power to the throttle motor to see if it moves.

Would also be worth looking at the live data with the throttle removed but still connected electrically. See if manual movement of the throttle affects the reported position in live data. There may also be an "actuator check" procedure though not sure if you need a Tech 2 to run it.

Kevin

there are 5 earth wires under the battery says they earth there.

throttle body move ok?

idc62 wrote on 23. Dec 2010 at 23:00:

it does alot more to your car than you think and all that sludge mess up electrics through it wish id gone to it first on mine the repair would of only cost time not the three parts i bought never mind its only money ;D ;D cheers ian its also a start inhibitor switch i think 4 little tangs to make contact through the goo

If it was selector switch, engine wouldn't turn over.



James - as others have pointed out, the next port of call is to check the throttle moves, and that the ecu can also see this movement.

Worth checking earth straps (easily checked with a jump lead from battery -ve to engine)

TheBoy wrote on 24. Dec 2010 at 11:18:

Worth checking earth straps (easily checked with a jump lead from battery -ve to engine)

Hi Jaime, thanks for this. I did the jump-lead trick last night, however I'll check the throttle movement when I can, in daylight.

Cheers,
James

Update : (Entwood on Janines machine :) )

Read the codes .. none showing on Engine, but 3 on transmission ... forgot to write them down .. :(

Cleared all the codes, then tried to start it, very reluctant to start, turning over and attempting to fire, eventually caught on 3, quickly went to all 4. Engine has not been started since it broke down mid-december. No faults showing, the GS500 won't do live data on this one for some reason.. so a bit stumped.

Vehicle is SORNed so couldn't drive it .. but in moving small distances on the drive I found that passing through positions 1 & 2 on the auto selector ALL the lights on the selector unit flash randomly .. ok at all other positions ....  makes me wonder if the selector needs a damned good clean ??.

Ran it for 30 minutes .. all seemed fine .. stopped and started 6 times without any problems.

Other problems, unrelated .... ABS ECU is FUBAR ... ABS light on /no speedo (apparently sometimes the speedo works and the light goes out ...  :)

Coolant level sensor knacked .. low level warning but fluid level fine

A few other minor odds and sods but for what they paid its a bargain....  :)

My recommendation is to leave it overnight to get cold again then try and start it .. if it starts OK having not been driven it sort of discounts cam- crank - sensors.

Then, when happy, and after cleaning the selector, try driving around the block a few times and see if the gearbox faults come back.

Any thoughts gratefully accepted.

Sound slike selector switch is fubar, but that wouldn't stop it starting (assuming it turned over (selector switch can stop starter engaging)).

Any water in plug wells?

I guess if it can be got going, a trip to a real Tech2 to double check if there is any underlying issue that the Maxscan couldn't see.

Trouble is, I guess its a long way to Alton or Brackley.


If I'm honest, I was expecting to see a 0340 along with something else.

TheBoy wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 14:26:

I guess if it can be got going, a trip to a real Tech2 to double check if there is any underlying issue that the Maxscan couldn't see. Trouble is, I guess its a long way to Alton or Brackley. If I'm honest, I was expecting to see a 0340 along with something else.

It runs ok but is SORNed at the moment, and I think 99% of OOF expected an 0340 !!!:)

janine wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 14:32:

TheBoy wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 14:26: I guess if it can be got going, a trip to a real Tech2 to double check if there is any underlying issue that the Maxscan couldn't see. Trouble is, I guess its a long way to Alton or Brackley. If I'm honest, I was expecting to see a 0340 along with something else. It runs ok but is SORNed at the moment, and I think 99% of OOF expected an 0340 !!!:)

Does it start on the button now?

If so, that normally a sign that cam sensor sort of works OK

TheBoy wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 14:36:

janine wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 14:32: TheBoy wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 14:26: I guess if it can be got going, a trip to a real Tech2 to double check if there is any underlying issue that the Maxscan couldn't see. Trouble is, I guess its a long way to Alton or Brackley. If I'm honest, I was expecting to see a 0340 along with something else. It runs ok but is SORNed at the moment, and I think 99% of OOF expected an 0340 !!!:) Does it start on the button now? If so, that normally a sign that cam sensor sort of works OK

started it 6-8 times without any problems ... I've advised to let it cool down and try tomorrow when cold ........ (I'll make sure they don't have my number !!!!!  :)

If the ABS ecu is fubared as Nigel suggests I`ve got one Janine from a 2.2 manual + a selector switch if a good clean doesn`t resolve the flashing lights issue. As for an 0340 code, in my experience with the 4-pots, if cam sensor is breaking down intermittently ECU doesn`t necessarily log it

RobG wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 15:29:

If the ABS ecu is fubared as Nigel suggests I`ve got one Janine from a 2.2 manual + a selector switch if a good clean doesn`t resolve the flashing lights issue. As for an 0340 code, in my experience with the 4-pots, if cam sensor is breaking down intermittently ECU doesn`t necessarily log it

Yes, it can also cause the gearbox ECU to protest, IME, although I agree it needs the selector switch sorting too.

Kevin

RobG wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 15:29:

If the ABS ecu is fubared as Nigel suggests I`ve got one Janine from a 2.2 manual + a selector switch if a good clean doesn`t resolve the flashing lights issue. As for an 0340 code, in my experience with the 4-pots, if cam sensor is breaking down intermittently ECU doesn`t necessarily log it

Is the ABS ECU the same for a manual as auto ?? If so then a replacement ECU and a replacement selector is probably faster and cheaper than repairing the ECU and dismantling and trying to clean the existing selector. .. :)

I'm completely unsure if the transmission faults are a result of the mucky selector or a result of an inaccurate cam sensor starting to fail ....  which is why I have suggested that they try starting the car every day while it can't be moved (SORN) ... if there are no further problems then I'm guessing the cam sensor is OK .......   :-/ :-/ :-/

Entwood wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 17:57:

RobG wrote on 14. Jan 2011 at 15:29: If the ABS ecu is fubared as Nigel suggests I`ve got one Janine from a 2.2 manual + a selector switch if a good clean doesn`t resolve the flashing lights issue. As for an 0340 code, in my experience with the 4-pots, if cam sensor is breaking down intermittently ECU doesn`t necessarily log it Is the ABS ECU the same for a manual as auto ?? If so then a replacement ECU and a replacement selector is probably faster and cheaper than repairing the ECU and dismantling and trying to clean the existing selector. .. :) I'm completely unsure if the transmission faults are a result of the mucky selector or a result of an inaccurate cam sensor starting to fail ....  which is why I have suggested that they try starting the car every day while it can't be moved (SORN) ... if there are no further problems then I'm guessing the cam sensor is OK .......   :-/ :-/ :-/

Will work OK but at some point would need a chat with TechII just to configure it to auto as opposed to existing manual. Also got an ABS from a 2.0 auto but unsure as to whether it`s compatible with a DBW :-/

If you fit an ABS ECU with an incorrect gearbox config, it will likely cause poor running


The 2.2 ABS is different to V6 one, but not sure about post 1998 2.0 and 2.2.

All pre 1998 ones are different from their post 1998 counterparts, as the system went 4 channel in 1998

Had a mesage from Janine ..

Seems they tried the car this morning with these results ..

"the car started first time second time started but no throttle but third, forth, fifth and sixth time no worries."

Would appear (?) that the cam- crank- sensors might not be an issue ... so TPS or Transmission ?? Still don't see why a transmission glitch would prevent starting though ...

Ideas .. if any ?? :)