Is alive  :y

Now he has got back to me  :)

If any of you lads and lasses are struggling to contact him and want a message passing on, PM me with your details and question and I will pass them on  :y

Steve

Ooh good, I am expecting a call ...  :y.         :-/

;D  Mentioned his answer phone service ................ he went a bit quite  ;D ;D

I think the e mail this morning with the words  Cash Waiting did the trick  ;D ;D

tigers_gonads wrote on 12. Apr 2011 at 15:10:

Is alive  :y Now he has got back to me  :) If any of you lads and lasses are struggling to contact him and want a message passing on, PM me with your details and question and I will pass them on  :y Steve

Given that Tielo's organisational skills are even worse than mine, I'd recommend OOF use a single point of contact for him, re queries etc (EG, Lazyfecker) :y

tigers_gonads wrote on 12. Apr 2011 at 16:13:

;D  Mentioned his answer phone service ................ he went a bit quite  ;D ;D I think the e mail this morning with the words  Cash Waiting did the trick  ;D ;D

Oh it's worse than that, I have the goods, mostly, I just want to pay for them, (and get the rest delivered)  :-? 

chrisgixer wrote on 12. Apr 2011 at 16:29:

tigers_gonads wrote on 12. Apr 2011 at 16:13: ;D  Mentioned his answer phone service ................ he went a bit quite  ;D ;D I think the e mail this morning with the words  Cash Waiting did the trick  ;D ;D Oh it's worse than that, I have the goods, mostly, I just want to pay for them, (and get the rest delivered)  :-?

;D ;D  give the money to me if you want, you can trust me   :D :D

To be fair, he was very busy last week... He had a group of people in having training and discussing the technical aspects.

Hopefully he should be getting back to everyone in the very near future :y

Lazydocker wrote on 12. Apr 2011 at 19:05:

To be fair, he was very busy last week... He had a group of people in having training and discussing the technical aspects. Hopefully he should be getting back to everyone in the very near future :y

;)

Lazydocker wrote on 12. Apr 2011 at 19:05:

To be fair, he was very busy last week... He had a group of people in having training and discussing the technical aspects. Hopefully he should be getting back to everyone in the very near future :y

Got to admit, he was very helpful when we spoke  :y
Just pleased things are moving along now because with the price of petrol, im having to think twice about using the car  :'(

Today, I even walked into town  :'(
Thats a 5 mile round trip  :'(

tigers_gonads wrote on 12. Apr 2011 at 23:50:

Lazydocker wrote on 12. Apr 2011 at 19:05: To be fair, he was very busy last week... He had a group of people in having training and discussing the technical aspects. Hopefully he should be getting back to everyone in the very near future :y Got to admit, he was very helpful when we spoke  :y Just pleased things are moving along now because with the price of petrol, im having to think twice about using the car  :'( Today, I even walked into town  :'( Thats a 5 mile round trip  :'(

That's the thing... He is very helpful but getting hold of him can be a real challenge :(

The last time I made contact was nearly 2 wks ago I asked then how often he looked at his email he replied mostly every 24 hrs as I now think I need a filler pipe so I'm going to have a go and order that way.

Cliffo B wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 11:15:

The last time I made contact was nearly 2 wks ago I asked then how often he looked at his email he replied mostly every 24 hrs as I now think I need a filler pipe so I'm going to have a go and order that way.

Ring him ;) ;)

He'll want to know the length required if you're going to use JIC type pipe

Telio sounds to me like the classic case of a small business which has grown quickly beyond expectation and has become a victim of his own success. Its so easy to fall into the trap of constantly trying to catch up while watching events run away from you.
He might need to take some time to stop,think and decide how best to organise things, and on what scale, to prevent himself from trying hard to please everyone and ending up pleasing no-one. An administrator/ manager of some sort might be a good start.
Sounds like a new opportunity for Lazyfecker. ;) :D

Albs wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 12:00:

Telio sounds to me like the classic case of a small business which has grown quickly beyond expectation and has become a victim of his own success. Its so easy to fall into the trap of constantly trying to catch up while watching events run away from you. He might need to take some time to stop,think and decide how best to organise things, and on what scale, to prevent himself from trying hard to please everyone and ending up pleasing no-one. An administrator/ manager of some sort might be a good start. Sounds like a new opportunity for Lazyfecker. ;) :D

I've got enough on my plate at the moment ::) ::) ::)

Although I am putting feelers out for other jobs just in case the worst happens ;) ;)

Thats what I was thinking. If you need to go to something approaching a desk job type of thing - you could hit the ground running if something like that were available. It would also be something you have an interest in, which is always nice. ;)

Albs wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 12:07:

Thats what I was thinking. If you need to go to something approaching a desk job type of thing - you could hit the ground running if something like that were available. It would also be something you have an interest in, which is always nice. ;)

Trouble is, I can't see there being enough money in it. I know for a fact that he's making very little on our kits as I saw some of the figures ;)

Vaporiser arived today.  :y

chrisgixer wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 19:09:

Vaporiser arived today.  :y

Have you chosen a tank yet, big boy?

Lazydocker wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 12:57:

Albs wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 12:07: Thats what I was thinking. If you need to go to something approaching a desk job type of thing - you could hit the ground running if something like that were available. It would also be something you have an interest in, which is always nice. ;) Trouble is, I can't see there being enough money in it. I know for a fact that he's making very little on our kits as I saw some of the figures ;)

How long has he been tradeing ?

tigers_gonads wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 19:49:

Lazydocker wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 12:57: Albs wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 12:07: Thats what I was thinking. If you need to go to something approaching a desk job type of thing - you could hit the ground running if something like that were available. It would also be something you have an interest in, which is always nice. ;) Trouble is, I can't see there being enough money in it. I know for a fact that he's making very little on our kits as I saw some of the figures ;) How long has he been tradeing ?

No idea, but I got the previous kit from him over a year ago, and he was every bit as difficult to speak to then ;D

TheBoy wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 19:51:

tigers_gonads wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 19:49: Lazydocker wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 12:57: Albs wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 12:07: Thats what I was thinking. If you need to go to something approaching a desk job type of thing - you could hit the ground running if something like that were available. It would also be something you have an interest in, which is always nice. ;) Trouble is, I can't see there being enough money in it. I know for a fact that he's making very little on our kits as I saw some of the figures ;) How long has he been tradeing ? No idea, but I got the previous kit from him over a year ago, and he was every bit as difficult to speak to then ;D

And my kit came from him 2 ¹/₂ years ago... He was just as bad then ::) ::)

ISTR him saying he's been in the business pretty much since it started becoming popular ;)

TheBoy wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 19:46:

chrisgixer wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 19:09: Vaporiser arived today.  :y Have you chosen a tank yet, big boy?

Well seeing as yours works, I was going to order the same tank when/if Tilo rang, with a view to not introducing another difference in set up to blame the lag on, and hopefully get the same result as yours, which seems a vast improvement.

So what's the nozzle size story?

when I checked with Teilo he told me 2.5mm for a 3.2 so thats what I did mine

chrisgixer wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 23:51:

TheBoy wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 19:46: chrisgixer wrote on 13. Apr 2011 at 19:09: Vaporiser arived today.  :y Have you chosen a tank yet, big boy? Well seeing as yours works, I was going to order the same tank when/if Tilo rang, with a view to not introducing another difference in set up to blame the lag on, and hopefully get the same result as yours, which seems a vast improvement. So what's the nozzle size story?

Seems there is still a slight lag at full chat when the tank is getting low, but I reckon it can probably be tuned out with some playing around as the Plus has some extra features :y We need to have a decent play with it, not one where we're knackered and I'm trying to get away  :-[

As for nozzles... We went for 2.5mm but I'm tempted to have a play at going slightly smaller (2.3mm perhaps :-/) and have a play. The software moans that the nozzles are too big on Autocalibration but then on a run says that they're fully open (only once when we were out) which contradicts that ::) It stays rich though, which is the important thing :y

If you do get the tank from him, ask him to make sure they ship it valved too, although the PTFE and stuff will be in the spares box if it isn't ;)

Gayboy, I'll try and get my leak sorted at weekend, then I could blast down and you could have a drive , if that helps

Calibration is currently half arsed due to a solenoid fault causing me to blow away lazydockers attempt

The lag I get now matches mv6 - full chat,6750rpm gearchange on low gas is horrid

Mv6 fixable with petrol switch at 6500

TheBoy wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:20:

Gayboy, I'll try and get my leak sorted at weekend, then I could blast down and you could have a drive , if that helps Calibration is currently half arsed due to a solenoid fault causing me to blow away lazydockers attempt

Oh Christ, he wants to come to my house now. Will it ever end...?  :'(

Maybe Kev fancys a fiddle and a curry?  ;D

TheBoy wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:21:

The lag I get now matches mv6 - full chat,6750rpm gearchange on low gas is horrid Mv6 fixable with petrol switch at 6500

Interesting.. Mine is annoying at the moment. For a long time it wasn't that noticeable. :-/

I did notice something interesting on the datalogs provided by Jimbob and JamesV6 recently. Right up to 6200 RPM Jimbob's car shows an injector duration of 23-24ms.

Unless I'm very much mistaken... At 6000 RPM the engine turns once every 10ms. Each cylinder fires every 20ms. How can you inject fuel for 24ms?

Either the figures reported by the ECU are dangleberries or the injectors are maxing out - which makes me wonder if they are being held open continuously. The LPG ECU then has nothing to trigger on and gets in a muddle.. perhaps? :-/

Kevin

chrisgixer wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:30:

Maybe Kev fancys a fiddle and a curry?  ;D

<cautious> That's fiddle in the LPG sense?</cautious>

Yeah, sounds good to me. :y

TheBoy wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:20:

Gayboy, I'll try and get my leak sorted at weekend, then I could blast down and you could have a drive , if that helps Calibration is currently half arsed due to a solenoid fault causing me to blow away lazydockers attempt

And, to be fair, that was fairly half hearted as it was getting late ::) ::)

Come to Essex in it and we'll have another play if it's not done before :y :y

(I'll try anything to convince him to come to the Essex meet ::))

Kevin Wood wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:35:

TheBoy wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:21: The lag I get now matches mv6 - full chat,6750rpm gearchange on low gas is horrid Mv6 fixable with petrol switch at 6500 Interesting.. Mine is annoying at the moment. For a long time it wasn't that noticeable. :-/ I did notice something interesting on the datalogs provided by Jimbob and JamesV6 recently. Right up to 6200 RPM Jimbob's car shows an injector duration of 23-24ms. Unless I'm very much mistaken... At 6000 RPM the engine turns once every 10ms. Each cylinder fires every 20ms. How can you inject fuel for 24ms? Either the figures reported by the ECU are dangleberries or the injectors are maxing out - which makes me wonder if they are being held open continuously. The LPG ECU then has nothing to trigger on and gets in a muddle.. perhaps? :-/ Kevin

But we've seen the LPG pressure overshoot when the injectors shut down for the change :-/ :-/

Mine hadn't been too bad but has started being a little annoying in the last day or 2, although I am very low on LPG at the moment ::)

Kevin Wood wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:35:

TheBoy wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:21: The lag I get now matches mv6 - full chat,6750rpm gearchange on low gas is horrid Mv6 fixable with petrol switch at 6500 Interesting.. Mine is annoying at the moment. For a long time it wasn't that noticeable. :-/ I did notice something interesting on the datalogs provided by Jimbob and JamesV6 recently. Right up to 6200 RPM Jimbob's car shows an injector duration of 23-24ms. Unless I'm very much mistaken... At 6000 RPM the engine turns once every 10ms. Each cylinder fires every 20ms. How can you inject fuel for 24ms? Either the figures reported by the ECU are dangleberries or the injectors are maxing out - which makes me wonder if they are being held open continuously. The LPG ECU then has nothing to trigger on and gets in a muddle.. perhaps? :-/ Kevin

Seem to remember discussions that the issue may be routed in the car, rather than lpg related. We have witnessed lag on petrol, and TB reports same with his DBW.

chrisgixer wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:49:

Kevin Wood wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:35: TheBoy wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:21: The lag I get now matches mv6 - full chat,6750rpm gearchange on low gas is horrid Mv6 fixable with petrol switch at 6500 Interesting.. Mine is annoying at the moment. For a long time it wasn't that noticeable. :-/ I did notice something interesting on the datalogs provided by Jimbob and JamesV6 recently. Right up to 6200 RPM Jimbob's car shows an injector duration of 23-24ms. Unless I'm very much mistaken... At 6000 RPM the engine turns once every 10ms. Each cylinder fires every 20ms. How can you inject fuel for 24ms? Either the figures reported by the ECU are dangleberries or the injectors are maxing out - which makes me wonder if they are being held open continuously. The LPG ECU then has nothing to trigger on and gets in a muddle.. perhaps? :-/ Kevin Seem to remember discussions that the issue may be routed in the car, rather than lpg related. We have witnessed lag on petrol, and TB reports same with his DBW.

The issue is definitely with the car(s) behaviour, just amplified by the LPG... I'm still scratching my head to minimise the amplification... I'm sure with some of the extra features on the Plus ECU it can be tuned out :-/ After all... There was no Lag whatsoever when we were tuning it on Sunday night (admittedly with a full tank of LPG) so there must be something we can do :y

In fact, the only lag we noticed on Sunday evening was when running on petrol ::) ::)

Lazydocker wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:48:

But we've seen the LPG pressure overshoot when the injectors shut down for the change :-/ :-/

So the LPG injectors shut, but, whilst I can see the ignition retard for a couple of samples in the log, the petrol injector duration stays the same throughout the change.

Just suggesting that maybe the LPG ECU stops seeing injector "events" and shuts the LPG injectors. :-/

Kevin

Kevin Wood wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:57:

Lazydocker wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 12:48: But we've seen the LPG pressure overshoot when the injectors shut down for the change :-/ :-/ So the LPG injectors shut, but, whilst I can see the ignition retard for a couple of samples in the log, the petrol injector duration stays the same throughout the change. Just suggesting that maybe the LPG ECU stops seeing injector "events" and shuts the LPG injectors. :-/ Kevin

Stag software picks up a sharp spike (downwards) in petrol injector times which the LPG injectors (obviously) copy, causing the LPG pressure to spike (or overshoot). Then when the injectors start firing again the excess pressure is released by injecting slightly more LPG than should be there, causing a momentary richness which causes the lag.

At least that's what it looks like at the moment... There is the possibility of trying some things when I can get an appointment to visit Teilo again ;)

To reiterate, both mine only show lag at 6750rpm gearchanges on low gas (excluding the DBW lift off, reapply issue that exists on petrol)

BOth mine are plus ecus

The 45mph 1st to 2nd is worse, 2nd to 3rd is better, and 3rd to 4th is not noticable

TheBoy wrote on 14. Apr 2011 at 14:37:

To reiterate, both mine only show lag at 6750rpm gearchanges on low gas (excluding the DBW lift off, reapply issue that exists on petrol) BOth mine are plus ecus The 45mph 1st to 2nd is worse, 2nd to 3rd is better, and 3rd to 4th is not noticable

Yep, I realise that was what you mean. ;)

I still think (or is that hope?) it will tune out :-/

Don't know if i'm barking up the wrong tree here but am I libel to have problems setting the kit up with my manual ?

I do have a rather agressive driving style  ;) ;)

If so, any tips would be apreciated  :)

tigers_gonads wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 11:18:

Don't know if i'm barking up the wrong tree here but am I libel to have problems setting the kit up with my manual ? I do have a rather agressive driving style  ;) ;) If so, any tips would be apreciated  :)

Nope... Manual has different properties when changing gear so should be fine :y :y

Don't forget to order the laptop cable though ;) ;)

Will do ( now i know too )  :y ;D ;D

Thats when he gets back to me  ;D

tigers_gonads wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 11:28:

Will do ( now i know too )  :y ;D ;D Thats when he gets back to me  ;D

Thought you'd heard from him? :-?

Thinking on some more about the lag... I wonder if it's worth calibrating and mapping with a low tank contents :-/

Lazydocker wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:04:

tigers_gonads wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 11:28: Will do ( now i know too )  :y ;D ;D Thats when he gets back to me  ;D Thought you'd heard from him? :-? Thinking on some more about the lag... I wonder if it's worth calibrating and mapping with a low tank contents :-/

Assuming vap pressure is not affected? Why does tank level affect it at all?

chrisgixer wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:07:

Lazydocker wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:04: tigers_gonads wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 11:28: Will do ( now i know too )  :y ;D ;D Thats when he gets back to me  ;D Thought you'd heard from him? :-? Thinking on some more about the lag... I wonder if it's worth calibrating and mapping with a low tank contents :-/ Assuming vap pressure is not affected? Why does tank level affect it at all?

Don't know! It shouldn't TBH ::) Only thing I can think of is tank "slosh" with the liquid moving away from the pickup causing it to just suck vapour :-?

Lazydocker wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:10:

chrisgixer wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:07: Lazydocker wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:04: tigers_gonads wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 11:28: Will do ( now i know too )  :y ;D ;D Thats when he gets back to me  ;D Thought you'd heard from him? :-? Thinking on some more about the lag... I wonder if it's worth calibrating and mapping with a low tank contents :-/ Assuming vap pressure is not affected? Why does tank level affect it at all? Don't know! It shouldn't TBH ::) Only thing I can think of is tank "slosh" with the liquid moving away from the pickup causing it to just suck vapour :-?

Though that may explain the switching back to petrol in the corners on my old car, but lag under acceleration only...?

chrisgixer wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:14:

Lazydocker wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:10: chrisgixer wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:07: Lazydocker wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:04: tigers_gonads wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 11:28: Will do ( now i know too )  :y ;D ;D Thats when he gets back to me  ;D Thought you'd heard from him? :-? Thinking on some more about the lag... I wonder if it's worth calibrating and mapping with a low tank contents :-/ Assuming vap pressure is not affected? Why does tank level affect it at all? Don't know! It shouldn't TBH ::) Only thing I can think of is tank "slosh" with the liquid moving away from the pickup causing it to just suck vapour :-? Though that may explain the switching back to petrol in the corners on my old car, but lag under acceleration only...?

Your old one also had the added disadvantage of a multivalve though ;)

As for lag under acceleration only... There's no demand for gas under braking ;)

chrisgixer wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:14:

Though that may explain the switching back to petrol in the corners on my old car, but lag under acceleration only...?

Acceleration can cause the fuel to slosh too.. although the only mechanism by which the tank pickup can affect the running is through the vapour pressure at the output of the vapouriser, which we're monitoring, so I would expect any issues to be visible in the datalog.

Maybe it's just not logging fast enough?

Kevin

Is it possible to have an LPG tank with baffles in ? That would prevent "slosh". :-/
None of this affects me, as my car rarely goes above 3000rpm. :)

Kevin Wood wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:18:

chrisgixer wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:14: Though that may explain the switching back to petrol in the corners on my old car, but lag under acceleration only...? Acceleration can cause the fuel to slosh too.. although the only mechanism by which the tank pickup can affect the running is through the vapour pressure at the output of the vapouriser, which we're monitoring, so I would expect any issues to be visible in the datalog. Maybe it's just not logging fast enough? Kevin

I'm thinking, perhaps wrongly, that the lag increases gradually in direct correlation to tank level de creasing? Going by descriptions. Would that mean tank pressure variations are affecting the vap somehow? Or some other reason...? The two appear related?

I tried calibrating at low gas with mv6, still lags at high rpm gearchange

I think its related to pressure, but cannot see it on diags

Should say, mv6 is higher flow multivalve, elite is 4 hole

Not used elite much On gas (200m ?), but think neither struggles to cope with full bore large

Kevin Wood wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:18:

chrisgixer wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:14: Though that may explain the switching back to petrol in the corners on my old car, but lag under acceleration only...? Acceleration can cause the fuel to slosh too.. although the only mechanism by which the tank pickup can affect the running is through the vapour pressure at the output of the vapouriser, which we're monitoring, so I would expect any issues to be visible in the datalog. Maybe it's just not logging fast enough? Kevin

The speed of logging has been discussed ::)

Lazydocker wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 12:04:

tigers_gonads wrote on 15. Apr 2011 at 11:28: Will do ( now i know too )  :y ;D ;D Thats when he gets back to me  ;D Thought you'd heard from him? :-? Thinking on some more about the lag... I wonder if it's worth calibrating and mapping with a low tank contents :-/

Yes I have  :y
Just waiting for him to get back to me with a price for a tank and rear end kit  :y