Omega Owners Forum - Project Tractor engine swap

TheBoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #105 - 20. Aug 2007 at 21:30

LFF64 wrote on 20. Aug 2007 at 21:24:

It may be worth checking the timing of that then, I have a 2.8 Pajero and that was smoking badly (unburnt deisel) and that was suggested it may be pump timing or possiblly the pump seals which is apparently common on these Pajero that is not sure about omegas I may be talking out of my bottom Undecided

but its a thought Thumbs Up!

Omegatoy did hint at that, but want me to try some other things first, namely get some injector cleaner through it, and get the lifter treatment in...

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Omegatoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #106 - 20. Aug 2007 at 21:30

LFF64 wrote on 20. Aug 2007 at 21:24:

It may be worth checking the timing of that then, I have a 2.8 Pajero and that was smoking badly (unburnt deisel) and that was suggested it may be pump timing or possiblly the pump seals which is apparently common on these Pajero that is not sure about omegas I may be talking out of my bottom Undecided

but its a thought Thumbs Up!

yep suggested that to the boy, its definetly unburnt diesel,and the 2.8 paj does hace a history of pump probs mate Thumbs Up!

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Kevin Wood

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #107 - 20. Aug 2007 at 21:31

The old oil did look pretty rancid (but then I know nothing about tractors).

Is the old engine ECU available to try? Might be worth a quick swap just in case? Is the Tech 2 showing sensible values for the temperature sensors, etc?

Worth trying a bit of lifter treatment and maybe some fuel additive perhaps. Although it hasn't been standing for long it's a fair while in comparison to regular use.

Excuse my complete lack of experience with diesels but if the ECU was over / under fuelling wouldn't it just affect the engine speed (at idle, at least. On boost it would be a different matter, obviously)? Surely if unburnt fuel is escaping as smoke it's the quality of the injector spray pattern or lack of compression, perhaps due to sticking lifters, etc?

Anyway, glad to hear it at least does run. Hopefully it will come good with a little more tinkering.

Kevin

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TheBoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #108 - 20. Aug 2007 at 21:41

Kevin Wood wrote on 20. Aug 2007 at 21:31:

The old oil did look pretty rancid (but then I know nothing about tractors).

Is the old engine ECU available to try? Might be worth a quick swap just in case? Is the Tech 2 showing sensible values for the temperature sensors, etc?

Worth trying a bit of lifter treatment and maybe some fuel additive perhaps. Although it hasn't been standing for long it's a fair while in comparison to regular use.

Excuse my complete lack of experience with diesels but if the ECU was over / under fuelling wouldn't it just affect the engine speed (at idle, at least. On boost it would be a different matter, obviously)? Surely if unburnt fuel is escaping as smoke it's the quality of the injector spray pattern or lack of compression, perhaps due to sticking lifters, etc?

Anyway, glad to hear it at least does run. Hopefully it will come good with a little more tinkering.

Kevin

I have donor ECU, but it requires loom change....

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LFF64 Omega Knight Offline Posts: 1139 BICESTER OXON Gender: Drives: 2.5 CDX AUTO 1998 2.8 TDi SWB PAJERO 1994	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #109 - 20. Aug 2007 at 21:47 Not as stupid as I look then
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TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #110 - 20. Aug 2007 at 21:50 LFF64 wrote on 20. Aug 2007 at 21:47: Not as stupid as I look then No, the rain and cold has not turned your brain to mush... ...yet!
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LFF64 Omega Knight Offline Posts: 1139 BICESTER OXON Gender: Drives: 2.5 CDX AUTO 1998 2.8 TDi SWB PAJERO 1994	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #111 - 20. Aug 2007 at 21:56 It may be worth you having a look at the pajero owners club site uk POCUK Sorry cant do links ect as nearly all of them are deisel someone on there may be able to offer some advice on what to look for
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familyman

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #112 - 20. Aug 2007 at 22:19

Hi TB just a thought if your running later pump with early software or vise versa a common fault is with the injector pump timing solenoid, usually on the bottom of the pump with 2 black wires on it and 2 torqs screws holding it in. Check on the engine/pump youve taken out as it will be easier to see. You should be able to swop over and it doesn't matter which way round the wires go for refitting. Just that what your describing is heavy deisel knock. You may even find one pump has it and the other doesn't. In which case you'll have to swop pumps back over to match software originally in car/ecu.

Other than timing you'll need to be checking and comparing compressions. Sad

Good luck mate

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TheBoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #113 - 20. Aug 2007 at 22:22

familyman wrote on 20. Aug 2007 at 22:19:

Hi TB just a thought if your running later pump with early software or vise versa a common fault is with the injector pump timing solenoid, usually on the bottom of the pump with 2 black wires on it and 2 torqs screws holding it in. Check on the engine/pump youve taken out as it will be easier to see. You should be able to swop over and it doesn't matter which way round the wires go for refitting. Just that what your describing is heavy deisel knock. You may even find one pump has it and the other doesn't. In which case you'll have to swop pumps back over to match software originally in car/ecu.

Other than timing you'll need to be checking and comparing compressions. Sad

Good luck mate

Oh fecking hell Sad

. I will have to ask Omegatoy how 'doable' this is Cry

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TheBoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #114 - 20. Aug 2007 at 22:23

familyman wrote on 20. Aug 2007 at 22:19:

Hi TB just a thought if your running later pump with early software or vise versa a common fault is with the injector pump timing solenoid, usually on the bottom of the pump with 2 black wires on it and 2 torqs screws holding it in. Check on the engine/pump youve taken out as it will be easier to see. You should be able to swop over and it doesn't matter which way round the wires go for refitting. Just that what your describing is heavy deisel knock. You may even find one pump has it and the other doesn't. In which case you'll have to swop pumps back over to match software originally in car/ecu.

Other than timing you'll need to be checking and comparing compressions. Sad

Good luck mate

Are you talking from experience of this particular engine?

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familyman

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #115 - 21. Aug 2007 at 08:23

TheBoy wrote on 20. Aug 2007 at 22:23:

familyman wrote on 20. Aug 2007 at 22:19:

Hi TB just a thought if your running later pump with early software or vise versa a common fault is with the injector pump timing solenoid, usually on the bottom of the pump with 2 black wires on it and 2 torqs screws holding it in. Check on the engine/pump youve taken out as it will be easier to see. You should be able to swop over and it doesn't matter which way round the wires go for refitting. Just that what your describing is heavy deisel knock. You may even find one pump has it and the other doesn't. In which case you'll have to swop pumps back over to match software originally in car/ecu.

Other than timing you'll need to be checking and comparing compressions. Sad

Good luck mate

Are you talking from experience of this particular engine?

More of experience of the Bosch deisel system many years playing around with their systems, its a good system and in my opinion more reliable than the lucas/delphi system. Lots of different manufacturers use the same deisel or petrol injections systems. e.g. fords TDci is basically the same as the merc. system just a few minor software changes to suit the application Thumbs Up!

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JamesV6CDX Ex Member Gender: Drives: 2002 (02) 3.2 Retail MV6 in Star Silver with Leather	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #116 - 21. Aug 2007 at 09:51 Off topic, but I do also believe the bosch pump is much stronger than lucas/cav If the cylinder compressions/leakdown test are all fine, It can only really be timing/injector related I guess
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familyman

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #117 - 21. Aug 2007 at 13:37

JamesV6CDX wrote on 21. Aug 2007 at 09:51:

Off topic, but I do also believe the bosch pump is much stronger than lucas/cav

If the cylinder compressions/leakdown test are all fine, It can only really be timing/injector related I guess

Yes and a good test of injectors is a leak off test for the injectors done from the leak off tube connections. run engine on idle for 2 mins with 4 tubes, 1 on each injector leak off connection and see 1st how much air is comming through and also all pipes ( preferable into its each own bottle/collector ) should deposit roughly the same amount of fuel.
Add all the measured amounts in each bottle together divide by 4 and this will give you an average your amounts should be. The bottle with the least amount if a lot different will be the faulty injector thats leaking. i.e if the excess fuel is not going into the bottle its going into the cylinder, easy eh! Thumbs Up!

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Marks DTM Calib Administrator Offline Ex Member Posts: 25671 Northern Hemisphere Gender: Drives: Astra J, Mum Bus, Dexta Tractor, 108 DMU wip	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #118 - 21. Aug 2007 at 13:46 But, going back to basics.......this engine was supposidly a good runner until it was removed.....so in theory it should be ok....... I wouldn't bugger around with anything thats not been touched during the refit until all the bits have been confirmed as ok first.
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familyman

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #119 - 21. Aug 2007 at 14:30

Marks DTM Calib wrote on 21. Aug 2007 at 13:46:

But, going back to basics.......this engine was supposidly a good runner until it was removed.....so in theory it should be ok....... I wouldn't bugger around with anything thats not been touched during the refit until all the bits have been confirmed as ok first.

Totally agree Marks, i was just thinking if engine and pump were swopped as a unit or if old pump was fitted to new engine, possible software difference issues. But your right basic timing checks etc....
Was engine left standing in the open without manifolds or injectors exposing cylinders to the weather for a month or so...??? Are the electrical plugs on the pump the same, Have you confirmed glow plug system working okay, Simple 12V test lamp onto glowplug when switched on and see how long it stays on, some systems keep the glow plugs on after lamp on dash has gone out and engine started to aid cold running, just a thought

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