Omega Owners Forum - Project Tractor engine swap

Entwood

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North Wiltshire
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Drives: 3.2 Elite (with LPG)

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #240 - 26. Aug 2007 at 21:52

I know naff-all about diesels .. but some google searching has found this :

on about diesel hummers ....

Quote:

We talked to a tech at Stanadyne. He said too many tech's change injector pumps when the problem is really the injector itself. If the injector itself is bad it won't always show up in the ODB II codes. The tech recommended we put the motor back together and find 4 injectors off of a truck that is running Ok and swap out one bank at a time to see if this fixes the "running rough/misfire" problem before tearing into the motor further.

Got the truck together last night; except for setting the timing more accurately, seems to run quite well with 4 new injectors in, rather than putting in an injector pump and who knows what else. Guess it was the injectors all along

and on a golf :

Quote:

Possible Symptoms

* Loss of Power at high Engine Speeds
* Engine difficult to Start

Possible Causes

* Start of Injection Timing Regulation not OK
* Injection Pump Control Range blocked/dirty (e.g. by Metal Particles)
* Engine has stalled / ran out of Fuel recently
* Wiring/Connectors from/to Injection Valve (N108) faulty

Possible Solutions

* Check/Adjust Injection Start
* Check Fuel Supply
* Check/Replace Fuse(s)
* Check/Repair Wiring/Connectors from/to Injection Valve (N108)

another site .. not sure which marque .. talks about "pump advance/retard stuck in a fixed position"

probably you have already considered all these points .. just trying to throw ideas in .. Sad

good luck

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TheBoy

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Brackley, Northants
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Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #241 - 26. Aug 2007 at 21:55

Taxi Driver wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 21:46:

Sorry......know the basics...but the prob you have TB i dont know....but question? coz im lost on the thread....is the replacement lump on the orig ecu.....or have you changed it? for the one for the donor engine....coz how i see it...with the probs your having....either engine is fubared and seller is telling porkies.....or ecu is incorect Undecided

Running my original ECU on the donor engine.

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TheBoy

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TBE has an MOT!

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Brackley, Northants
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Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #242 - 26. Aug 2007 at 21:56

Entwood wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 21:52:

I know naff-all about diesels .. but some google searching has found this :

on about diesel hummers ....

Quote:

We talked to a tech at Stanadyne. He said too many tech's change injector pumps when the problem is really the injector itself. If the injector itself is bad it won't always show up in the ODB II codes. The tech recommended we put the motor back together and find 4 injectors off of a truck that is running Ok and swap out one bank at a time to see if this fixes the "running rough/misfire" problem before tearing into the motor further.

Got the truck together last night; except for setting the timing more accurately, seems to run quite well with 4 new injectors in, rather than putting in an injector pump and who knows what else. Guess it was the injectors all along

and on a golf :

Quote:

Possible Symptoms

* Loss of Power at high Engine Speeds
* Engine difficult to Start

Possible Causes

* Start of Injection Timing Regulation not OK
* Injection Pump Control Range blocked/dirty (e.g. by Metal Particles)
* Engine has stalled / ran out of Fuel recently
* Wiring/Connectors from/to Injection Valve (N108) faulty

Possible Solutions

* Check/Adjust Injection Start
* Check Fuel Supply
* Check/Replace Fuse(s)
* Check/Repair Wiring/Connectors from/to Injection Valve (N108)

another site .. not sure which marque .. talks about "pump advance/retard stuck in a fixed position"

probably you have already considered all these points .. just trying to throw ideas in .. Sad

good luck

All ideas welcomed Thumbs Up!

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If you are going to kick a car, remember to wear appropriate footwear
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familyman

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Posts: 320
Sittingbourne, Kent
Gender: male

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #243 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:20

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 20:09:

familyman wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 20:03:

[quote author=TheBoy link=1187475602/210#224 date=1188152306]Unfortunately, the fecking thing is jinxed.

Yesterday was obviously just a fluke.

If you can start the heap, it runs awful, lumpy, smokey, noisy. No amount of pump adjustment dials it out today.

Both Omegatoy and I are entirely out of ideas now.

Time to call the local scrappy for collection methinks.

Glad you got the old girl running, Omegatoy well on the ball. Have you tried blanking egr off or just cleaning it and check poppet valve seat. Wish i was nearer to pop round and listen and have a play Sad

Are you still running 5 of 1 type of injector and then an odd 1 Huh

Actually, its currently got all the air intake off, which disconnects the egr (diesels run pretty much the same with the intake on or off, and it has to be off for adjusting the pump (and yes, same with intake on).

What is a poppet valve seat?
Still running 5 newer type injectors (1 with piezo lead), and one older type - as I was yesterday when it was working.

Yes, I wish you were nearer as well, as I simply do not know what to try now Cry

[/quote

Sorry poppet valve is the type of valve in the egr. and the seat is the same as inlet/exh valves and these seats are prone to wearing the same as engine valves so bad sealing to much air leaked so loss of boost pressure black smoke etc...... but as it makes no difference with it or manifold for that matter on or off hmmmmmmmm......... Sad

What were the injector seals and if fitted the thermo seals at base of injectors like. ( theoretically crush type seals/washers and should be replaced every time but....) To much air and it will alter the crack off pressure for the injector, !st stage injection will be okay as light pressure only but 2nd stage requires higher compression pressure from cylinder, If this happens once piston has passed optimum point of injection due to air leaks poor starting and smoke etc.... I wouldn't worry about smoke visible in car headlights behind to much as it seems amplified in the headlights at night, all diesels do this to a greater or lesser degree

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You came in that, your braver than i thought

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TheBoy

Administrator

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TBE has an MOT!

Posts: 64817
Brackley, Northants
Gender: male

Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #244 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:25

familyman wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:20:

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 20:09:

familyman wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 20:03:

[quote author=TheBoy link=1187475602/210#224 date=1188152306]Unfortunately, the fecking thing is jinxed.

Yesterday was obviously just a fluke.

If you can start the heap, it runs awful, lumpy, smokey, noisy. No amount of pump adjustment dials it out today.

Both Omegatoy and I are entirely out of ideas now.

Time to call the local scrappy for collection methinks.

Glad you got the old girl running, Omegatoy well on the ball. Have you tried blanking egr off or just cleaning it and check poppet valve seat. Wish i was nearer to pop round and listen and have a play Sad

Are you still running 5 of 1 type of injector and then an odd 1 Huh

Actually, its currently got all the air intake off, which disconnects the egr (diesels run pretty much the same with the intake on or off, and it has to be off for adjusting the pump (and yes, same with intake on).

What is a poppet valve seat?
Still running 5 newer type injectors (1 with piezo lead), and one older type - as I was yesterday when it was working.

Yes, I wish you were nearer as well, as I simply do not know what to try now Cry

[/quote

Sorry poppet valve is the type of valve in the egr. and the seat is the same as inlet/exh valves and these seats are prone to wearing the same as engine valves so bad sealing to much air leaked so loss of boost pressure black smoke etc...... but as it makes no difference with it or manifold for that matter on or off hmmmmmmmm......... Sad

What were the injector seals and if fitted the thermo seals at base of injectors like. ( theoretically crush type seals/washers and should be replaced every time but....) To much air and it will alter the crack off pressure for the injector, !st stage injection will be okay as light pressure only but 2nd stage requires higher compression pressure from cylinder, If this happens once piston has passed optimum point of injection due to air leaks poor starting and smoke etc.... I wouldn't worry about smoke visible in car headlights behind to much as it seems amplified in the headlights at night, all diesels do this to a greater or lesser degree

when we changed yesterday, a couple of the copper seals were suspect, so we put better ones from old ones on. After pump adjustments yesterday, it was pretty good (with intake on or off), and test drive was great.

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Andy B Over Active Poster Offline Posts: 21988 Bury Lancs Gender: Drives: 1999 3.0 Elite auto/TDM	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #245 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:26 TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 21:56: .............. All ideas welcomed A gallon of 4 star & a box of Swanvestas? There's a reasonable looking facelift (X reg?) 2.5 TD near me for £2500 (bit basic though - it has windy handle things on the back doors )
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TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #246 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:30 Andy B wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:26: TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 21:56: .............. All ideas welcomed A gallon of 4 star & a box of Swanvestas? Oh, believe me, the thought has crossed my mind several times
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familyman

Intermediate Member

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Posts: 320
Sittingbourne, Kent
Gender: male

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #247 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:37

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:25:

familyman wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:20:

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 20:09:

familyman wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 20:03:

[quote author=TheBoy link=1187475602/210#224 date=1188152306]Unfortunately, the fecking thing is jinxed.

Yesterday was obviously just a fluke.

If you can start the heap, it runs awful, lumpy, smokey, noisy. No amount of pump adjustment dials it out today.

Both Omegatoy and I are entirely out of ideas now.

Time to call the local scrappy for collection methinks.

Glad you got the old girl running, Omegatoy well on the ball. Have you tried blanking egr off or just cleaning it and check poppet valve seat. Wish i was nearer to pop round and listen and have a play Sad

Are you still running 5 of 1 type of injector and then an odd 1 Huh

Actually, its currently got all the air intake off, which disconnects the egr (diesels run pretty much the same with the intake on or off, and it has to be off for adjusting the pump (and yes, same with intake on).

What is a poppet valve seat?
Still running 5 newer type injectors (1 with piezo lead), and one older type - as I was yesterday when it was working.

Yes, I wish you were nearer as well, as I simply do not know what to try now Cry

[/quote

Sorry poppet valve is the type of valve in the egr. and the seat is the same as inlet/exh valves and these seats are prone to wearing the same as engine valves so bad sealing to much air leaked so loss of boost pressure black smoke etc...... but as it makes no difference with it or manifold for that matter on or off hmmmmmmmm......... Sad

What were the injector seals and if fitted the thermo seals at base of injectors like. ( theoretically crush type seals/washers and should be replaced every time but....) To much air and it will alter the crack off pressure for the injector, !st stage injection will be okay as light pressure only but 2nd stage requires higher compression pressure from cylinder, If this happens once piston has passed optimum point of injection due to air leaks poor starting and smoke etc.... I wouldn't worry about smoke visible in car headlights behind to much as it seems amplified in the headlights at night, all diesels do this to a greater or lesser degree

when we changed yesterday, a couple of the copper seals were suspect, so we put better ones from old ones on. After pump adjustments yesterday, it was pretty good (with intake on or off), and test drive was great.

Just an idea but it could just be that all injectors need retightening, Engine was okay when warm so seals cyl.head metals etc all expanded nicely to seal, But next day when cold a few air leaks appeared???
Also is delivery of tank to pump via filter okay. If poor delivery pump will alter timing to overcome offer biggest quantities of fuel but without the fuel there the bugger wont run no matter how much fuel it THINKS is going through. Same as in a petrol if it wont start what do you with the throttle push it to the floor and as anybody who knows of carbs with a fuel evaporation will know it will run like a bag of well you know. ( not suggesting your's is fuel evap but poss air leak in supply system)

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You came in that, your braver than i thought

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STMO123 Ex Member Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #248 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:39 It's just taken me fifteen minutes to read this thread from start to finish. I feel personally involved I do hope it works out Jaime, it would be one of the greatest success stories to date.
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Andy B

Over Active Poster

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Posts: 21988
Bury Lancs
Gender: male

Drives: 1999 3.0 Elite auto/TDM

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #249 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:39

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:30:

Andy B wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:26:

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 21:56:

..............
All ideas welcomed Thumbs Up!

A gallon of 4 star & a box of Swanvestas? Grin

Oh, believe me, the thought has crossed my mind several times Wink

Sorry I couldn't be more constructive! Roll Eyes

We always seem to have a problem or two orthree or four .... with our Vauxhalls. My Astra has behaved impecably since I put it back on the road, but today for no apparent reason it has decided to show the airbag light Sad

It was OK when I went into Tesco but lit when i started it on my return! Cry

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STMO123

Ex Member

Gender:

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #250 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:46

Andy B wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:39:

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:30:

Andy B wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:26:

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 21:56:

..............
All ideas welcomed Thumbs Up!

A gallon of 4 star & a box of Swanvestas? Grin

Oh, believe me, the thought has crossed my mind several times Wink

Sorry I couldn't be more constructive! Roll Eyes

We always seem to have a problem or two orthree or four .... with our Vauxhalls. My Astra has behaved impecably since I put it back on the road, but today for no apparent reason it has decided to show the airbag light Sad

It was OK when I went into Tesco but lit when i started it on my return! Cry

You didn't put your shopping under the passenger seat? Roll Eyes

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TheBoy

Administrator

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TBE has an MOT!

Posts: 64817
Brackley, Northants
Gender: male

Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #251 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:47

familyman wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:37:

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:25:

familyman wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:20:

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 20:09:

familyman wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 20:03:

[quote author=TheBoy link=1187475602/210#224 date=1188152306]Unfortunately, the fecking thing is jinxed.

Yesterday was obviously just a fluke.

If you can start the heap, it runs awful, lumpy, smokey, noisy. No amount of pump adjustment dials it out today.

Both Omegatoy and I are entirely out of ideas now.

Time to call the local scrappy for collection methinks.

Glad you got the old girl running, Omegatoy well on the ball. Have you tried blanking egr off or just cleaning it and check poppet valve seat. Wish i was nearer to pop round and listen and have a play Sad

Are you still running 5 of 1 type of injector and then an odd 1 Huh

Actually, its currently got all the air intake off, which disconnects the egr (diesels run pretty much the same with the intake on or off, and it has to be off for adjusting the pump (and yes, same with intake on).

What is a poppet valve seat?
Still running 5 newer type injectors (1 with piezo lead), and one older type - as I was yesterday when it was working.

Yes, I wish you were nearer as well, as I simply do not know what to try now Cry

[/quote

Sorry poppet valve is the type of valve in the egr. and the seat is the same as inlet/exh valves and these seats are prone to wearing the same as engine valves so bad sealing to much air leaked so loss of boost pressure black smoke etc...... but as it makes no difference with it or manifold for that matter on or off hmmmmmmmm......... Sad

What were the injector seals and if fitted the thermo seals at base of injectors like. ( theoretically crush type seals/washers and should be replaced every time but....) To much air and it will alter the crack off pressure for the injector, !st stage injection will be okay as light pressure only but 2nd stage requires higher compression pressure from cylinder, If this happens once piston has passed optimum point of injection due to air leaks poor starting and smoke etc.... I wouldn't worry about smoke visible in car headlights behind to much as it seems amplified in the headlights at night, all diesels do this to a greater or lesser degree

when we changed yesterday, a couple of the copper seals were suspect, so we put better ones from old ones on. After pump adjustments yesterday, it was pretty good (with intake on or off), and test drive was great.

Just an idea but it could just be that all injectors need retightening, Engine was okay when warm so seals cyl.head metals etc all expanded nicely to seal, But next day when cold a few air leaks appeared???
Also is delivery of tank to pump via filter okay. If poor delivery pump will alter timing to overcome offer biggest quantities of fuel but without the fuel there the bugger wont run no matter how much fuel it THINKS is going through. Same as in a petrol if it wont start what do you with the throttle push it to the floor and as anybody who knows of carbs with a fuel evaporation will know it will run like a bag of well you know. ( not suggesting your's is fuel evap but poss air leak in supply system)

Delivery pump definately working (had injection pump slightly dismantled, and when tunnie switched on ign, I got a good coating in diesel)...

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If you are going to kick a car, remember to wear appropriate footwear
Any posts are the result of my own views as a member of OOF, which may or may not be the same as my views as part of the Admin Team.

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TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #252 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:48 STMO123 wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:39: It's just taken me fifteen minutes to read this thread from start to finish. I feel personally involved I do hope it works out Jaime, it would be one of the greatest success stories to date. It would be a bloody miracle Thanks for the support
Back to top	If you are going to kick a car, remember to wear appropriate footwear Any posts are the result of my own views as a member of OOF, which may or may not be the same as my views as part of the Admin Team. IP Logged

TheBoy

Administrator

Offline

TBE has an MOT!

Posts: 64817
Brackley, Northants
Gender: male

Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10

Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #253 - 26. Aug 2007 at 22:48

Andy B wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:39:

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:30:

Andy B wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 22:26:

TheBoy wrote on 26. Aug 2007 at 21:56:

..............
All ideas welcomed Thumbs Up!

A gallon of 4 star & a box of Swanvestas? Grin

Oh, believe me, the thought has crossed my mind several times Wink

Sorry I couldn't be more constructive! Roll Eyes

We always seem to have a problem or two orthree or four .... with our Vauxhalls. My Astra has behaved impecably since I put it back on the road, but today for no apparent reason it has decided to show the airbag light Sad

It was OK when I went into Tesco but lit when i started it on my return! Cry

You don't use the same supermarket carparks as AutoAddict do you Grin

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If you are going to kick a car, remember to wear appropriate footwear
Any posts are the result of my own views as a member of OOF, which may or may not be the same as my views as part of the Admin Team.

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sassanach Senior Member Offline Posts: 805 trowbridge Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #254 - 26. Aug 2007 at 23:04 if all else fails let me know and ill bring marshmallows
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