Omega Owners Forum - Project Tractor engine swap

TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #315 - 28. Aug 2007 at 15:56 Dealer, £120 + VAT for gasket, £59 + VAT for bolts ECP = £60 +VAT for HG, £26 + VAT for bolts... ...again, mentions notches etc. Anyone know what should be fitted to Omega TD?
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #316 - 28. Aug 2007 at 16:07

It sounds like the gaskets are of different thicknesses and are fitted selectively or perhaps used to compensate for skimmed heads, etc.

You'll probably be able to see the notches on the edge of the gasket somewhere where it emerges from the side of the engine. It may be worth seeing if you have to do any work on the head before getting a replacement.

Kevin

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sassanach Senior Member Offline Posts: 805 trowbridge Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #317 - 28. Aug 2007 at 16:08 local factors do a head gasket for £41+vat 3 notch version ie max thickness
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TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #318 - 28. Aug 2007 at 16:14 sassanach wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 16:08: local factors do a head gasket for £41+vat 3 notch version ie max thickness Blimey, can't get anywhere near that sort of price. Do they do the bolts?
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sassanach Senior Member Offline Posts: 805 trowbridge Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #319 - 28. Aug 2007 at 16:26 bolts £33.30+vat but even stretch bolts can be used again provided they havent exceeded there set length however i must admit i always change them
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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #320 - 28. Aug 2007 at 17:36

TheBoy wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 15:46:

sassanach wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 15:40:

nope you have got all that other stuff already. you have a perfectly sweet lump sat in your garage KNOWN to work with a duff head, swap em and stop doing a balaclava

That must be a Wiltshire/Avon term for something, coz means nought to me, but think I can guess the meaning....

Just rang the same place I got previous HG set quotes from. HG is around £60/£65, but need to know how many 'notches' it has, which is something to do with thickness?? They are now saying they don't list bolts, which usually mean they are not stretch bolts Shocked

Its not one that ive heard of before either

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TheBoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #321 - 28. Aug 2007 at 19:29

OK, getting different advice, both publically and privately.

What should I do next, and why it will cure problem....

Even if you have privately or previously suggested something, please post here so we have all info in one place - I'm way beyond my knowledge, and struggling to keep up Embarrassed

I really do need help on this, but really need to control budget on it now.

Wholehearted thanks in advance Thumbs Up!

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« Last Edit: 28. Aug 2007 at 19:42 by TheBoy »

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familyman

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #322 - 28. Aug 2007 at 19:57

Hiya TB. Okay been checkign out some things 'cause this is an old injection system got a bit lost on the electric injector. Right this injector DOES NOT measure flowbut has a lift sensor on it that provides an input to the ECU to enable accurate control of injection TIMING. The different connectors are for different degrees of timing, the resistance will be the same for all injectors. So you need to match injector to pump and ecu. Not saying this is definately the prob, but without it the ecu cant accurately time the injection.

The cylinder head is flat, normally only the swirl chambers crack. An engineering shop should be able to pull swirl chambers out and if ava. fit new ones. Should be able to then skim okay with no affect on compression as this is done in the piston crown.

Different thickness of HG is to accomadate piston protrusion above the block deck measured with dial gauge at tdc. As your not touching bottom end just fit a gasket with same no of notches/holes. Very important . to thick poor low compression no power lots of black smoke. to thin high compression but fuel ignition to early poor power

Hope this helps some Thumbs Up!

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Martin Imber Over Active Poster Offline LPG Omega V6 - Keyfobs Rebuilt Posts: 20110 Worcester Gender: Drives: 2001 Omega 2.6CD LPG & 3.0 cams	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #323 - 28. Aug 2007 at 19:59 This is what I would do assuming no urgency Remove replacement engine Remove head form original CLean and regrind in valves on bought engine Fit recon head and new chain and pulleys Refit
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TheBoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #324 - 28. Aug 2007 at 20:28

familyman wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 19:57:

Hiya TB. Okay been checkign out some things 'cause this is an old injection system got a bit lost on the electric injector. Right this injector DOES NOT measure flowbut has a lift sensor on it that provides an input to the ECU to enable accurate control of injection TIMING. The different connectors are for different degrees of timing, the resistance will be the same for all injectors. So you need to match injector to pump and ecu. Not saying this is definately the prob, but without it the ecu cant accurately time the injection.

The cylinder head is flat, normally only the swirl chambers crack. An engineering shop should be able to pull swirl chambers out and if ava. fit new ones. Should be able to then skim okay with no affect on compression as this is done in the piston crown.

Different thickness of HG is to accomadate piston protrusion above the block deck measured with dial gauge at tdc. As your not touching bottom end just fit a gasket with same no of notches/holes. Very important . to thick poor low compression no power lots of black smoke. to thin high compression but fuel ignition to early poor power

Hope this helps some Thumbs Up!

Runs equally badly on both injectors....

So I need to remove head to check the HG before buying one, or is it checkable from outside? Assuming I go down the head change route...

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familyman

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #325 - 28. Aug 2007 at 20:51

Normally you can check the gasket without removing head. Not sure where it will be but its normally a bit of gasket sticking out of head, not even able to guess where it is but if a factors will let you look at a gasket you should then be able to work where your one is. Your not going to try a pump swop first then, compression test will tell you if anything amis in engine first before ripping apart what could be a perfectly good lump, If timing has jumped you'll get low compression as there is not a lot of room for error on valve timing.
Does this engine use shims on valve lifters or are they hydraulic like the petrol? If shimmed then just check for any valves with huge gaps this'll tell you if any valves are bent Thumbs Up!

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TheBoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #326 - 28. Aug 2007 at 21:00

familyman wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 20:51:

Normally you can check the gasket without removing head. Not sure where it will be but its normally a bit of gasket sticking out of head, not even able to guess where it is but if a factors will let you look at a gasket you should then be able to work where your one is. Your not going to try a pump swop first then, compression test will tell you if anything amis in engine first before ripping apart what could be a perfectly good lump, If timing has jumped you'll get low compression as there is not a lot of room for error on valve timing.
Does this engine use shims on valve lifters or are they hydraulic like the petrol? If shimmed then just check for any valves with huge gaps this'll tell you if any valves are bent Thumbs Up!

Are you suggesting I should try swapping pumps?

I think its hydraulic lifters.

Do you think its likely the chains have slipped, like the photo of article I posted earlier today?

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familyman

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #327 - 28. Aug 2007 at 21:20

TheBoy wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 21:00:

familyman wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 20:51:

Normally you can check the gasket without removing head. Not sure where it will be but its normally a bit of gasket sticking out of head, not even able to guess where it is but if a factors will let you look at a gasket you should then be able to work where your one is. Your not going to try a pump swop first then, compression test will tell you if anything amis in engine first before ripping apart what could be a perfectly good lump, If timing has jumped you'll get low compression as there is not a lot of room for error on valve timing.
Does this engine use shims on valve lifters or are they hydraulic like the petrol? If shimmed then just check for any valves with huge gaps this'll tell you if any valves are bent Thumbs Up!

Are you suggesting I should try swapping pumps?

I think its hydraulic lifters.

Do you think its likely the chains have slipped, like the photo of article I posted earlier today?

Personally i would do a comp. test 1st. If you can get pins for checking timing do this as this will tell you if timing has slipped if okay leave. I just think that until you know whats going on inside the lump you may be doing work thats not needed.

Note diesel comp testers normally go higher than one dedicated to petrol, but a mutlipurpose one if it fits in glow plug holes should be okay

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sassanach Senior Member Offline Posts: 805 trowbridge Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #328 - 28. Aug 2007 at 21:35 i sure i saw the notches on your old engines headgasket at the back of the head
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familyman Intermediate Member Offline Posts: 320 Sittingbourne, Kent Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #329 - 28. Aug 2007 at 21:44 sassanach wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 21:35: i sure i saw the notches on your old engines headgasket at the back of the head Just make sure the no. of notches match the block your using not the head. your old engine may well be the same but check your new engine first.
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