Omega Owners Forum - Project Tractor engine swap

TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #330 - 28. Aug 2007 at 21:53 sassanach wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 21:35: i sure i saw the notches on your old engines headgasket at the back of the head I will check in daylight.
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TheBoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #331 - 28. Aug 2007 at 21:54

familyman wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 21:44:

sassanach wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 21:35:

i sure i saw the notches on your old engines headgasket at the back of the head

Just make sure the no. of notches match the block your using not the head. your old engine may well be the same but check your new engine first. Wink

Thanks for the tip Thumbs Up!

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TheBoy

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #332 - 28. Aug 2007 at 21:58

familyman wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 21:20:

TheBoy wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 21:00:

familyman wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 20:51:

Normally you can check the gasket without removing head. Not sure where it will be but its normally a bit of gasket sticking out of head, not even able to guess where it is but if a factors will let you look at a gasket you should then be able to work where your one is. Your not going to try a pump swop first then, compression test will tell you if anything amis in engine first before ripping apart what could be a perfectly good lump, If timing has jumped you'll get low compression as there is not a lot of room for error on valve timing.
Does this engine use shims on valve lifters or are they hydraulic like the petrol? If shimmed then just check for any valves with huge gaps this'll tell you if any valves are bent Thumbs Up!

Are you suggesting I should try swapping pumps?

I think its hydraulic lifters.

Do you think its likely the chains have slipped, like the photo of article I posted earlier today?

Personally i would do a comp. test 1st. If you can get pins for checking timing do this as this will tell you if timing has slipped if okay leave. I just think that until you know whats going on inside the lump you may be doing work thats not needed.

Note diesel comp testers normally go higher than one dedicated to petrol, but a mutlipurpose one if it fits in glow plug holes should be okay

What I'm thinking, rightly or wrong, and I'm open to ideas, is that the original engine has a good bottom end, good pump, and is timed up fine. It just has a knackered head (or possibly gasket).

So would it save a lot of pondering and further dead ends if I just swap the heads, then swap the engines back over?

Am I correct with my thoughts? Or is it a bad idea?

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sassanach Senior Member Offline Posts: 805 trowbridge Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #333 - 28. Aug 2007 at 21:59 spot on
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sassanach Senior Member Offline Posts: 805 trowbridge Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #334 - 28. Aug 2007 at 22:00 but use the cam and lifters from your original engine.
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TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #335 - 28. Aug 2007 at 22:07 sassanach wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 22:00: but use the cam and lifters from your original engine. oh feck.... ....is that easy?
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sassanach Senior Member Offline Posts: 805 trowbridge Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #336 - 28. Aug 2007 at 22:12 YES.....
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TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #337 - 28. Aug 2007 at 22:14 sassanach wrote on 28. Aug 2007 at 22:12: YES..... Yes, but you think stripping AR35s down and respraying is easy
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sassanach Senior Member Offline Posts: 805 trowbridge Gender:	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #338 - 28. Aug 2007 at 22:15 you have to remove these parts to remove the head!!!!
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TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #339 - 28. Aug 2007 at 22:20 OK, I'm having a break from it this weekend, as doing the 'not quite Wales' camping trip, but keen to get it going asap afterwards. Does anyone else agree this is the right/wrong thing to do? Additionally, anyone got a locking kit I can borrow for a few days? Anyone done one before?
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ffcgary1

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #340 - 28. Aug 2007 at 22:49

Now jamie,you know what you have to do but are putting it off and in a way i understand, but you have a unit that you have some degree of knowledge about,and one that you know bugger all about. So going on that you need to swap the head and fit new hg and refit into your car. take ssassenachs advice and get it done, as at the moment you are going around in circles chasing your tail to the point that eventually you dont know what to do next. With the engine out it has got to be the best and quickest way forward.Best of luck to you. Wink

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Kevin Wood

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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #341 - 28. Aug 2007 at 23:33

Quote:

What I'm thinking, rightly or wrong, and I'm open to ideas, is that the original engine has a good bottom end, good pump, and is timed up fine. It just has a knackered head (or possibly gasket).

So would it save a lot of pondering and further dead ends if I just swap the heads, then swap the engines back over?

Have we got any reason to suspect that the new engine is not basically OK?

It was running reasonably well at one point? We can do a compression test to gain some confidence in it.

Personally, I wouldn't go to the pain of swapping the engines again and the expense of rebuilding the old engine without establishing why the new engine is misbehaving. The fact that it ran badly, then OK, then badly again tells me that something slipped, broke, etc. but that it is probably capable of running OK.

I'd be inclined to have a look at the timing chain first, and see if anything odd is going on there WRT the pump timing slipping. If that doesn't solve anything I'd try swapping the pumps over in case the new engine has a knackered pump or it's incompatible with the ECU. Only then would I consider rebuilding the old engine. - or is the pump change / cam chain access so awkward it's a rebuild job anyway?

I agree that if the above two steps don't improve matters it's worth stripping but even then I wouldn't take the bottom end of the new engine out of the car unless it is proven to be duff.

Kevin

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JamesV6CDX Ex Member Gender: Drives: 2002 (02) 3.2 Retail MV6 in Star Silver with Leather	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #342 - 28. Aug 2007 at 23:34 Totally agree with your thinking. Use the known good block and pump, but fit the replacement head, with the original lifters that came with the tractor. I'll certainly be over to help...
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Marks DTM Calib Administrator Offline Ex Member Posts: 25671 Northern Hemisphere Gender: Drives: Astra J, Mum Bus, Dexta Tractor, 108 DMU wip	Re: Project Tractor engine swap Reply #343 - 29. Aug 2007 at 08:06 I would still check the pump timing of the replacement engine before doing anything! Its interesting that we are all coming round to what I originaly said about this.....off with its head. Second hand parts are ALWAYS a risk.....better the devil you know!
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Re: Project Tractor engine swap
Reply #344 - 29. Aug 2007 at 08:53

Marks DTM Calib wrote on 29. Aug 2007 at 08:06:

I would still check the pump timing of the replacement engine before doing anything!
Its interesting that we are all coming round to what I originaly said about this.....off with its head.

Second hand parts are ALWAYS a risk.....better the devil you know!

The fact that saturday night it was running almost perfect after adjusting pump, then the next day it wasn't leads me to suspect something related to timing slipped. I will, as always, bow to your superior knowledge and experience.

I think to check pump timing, I need the gauge itself, plus a locking kit. I need the locking kit to do the head I suppose though.

To check chains easily, I reckon all the rad and condensor needs to come out again. Once they are out, not much further work (bolt prop, engine and box mounts, few ancillaries) and the engine/box can come out.

I reckon it will be much easier to change head with engine out - access may be restricted in car.

M_DTM - after I had sorted out all the niggles with the cooling system, and it started running cooler, in my heart of hearts, I knew you were right. I naively assumed plonking in a replacement motor would solve all the problems - instead (as with everything else on this jinxed car) I ended up with a new set of problems.

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