Richie London wrote on 26. May 2009 at 07:53:


kin ell - it's like a BNP rally in 'ere - with that logic - you won't mind if i call you German then? as it was a large Grman tribe called Angles that settled in what is now called England - or does your family go back further? to the last ice age? because thats when migrants from across europe came to settle on your country - at what point in history do you cut off the ancestry? 13000 yrs? 500yrs? or somewhere in the 1950's?

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....but Celts are supposed to be originally Bretons.

....and there is now talk of the 'dark' Welsh; a genetic-line of North African descent. 

It seems notions of Britishness are simply that; notions.....
It matters not, where we all originate, but more that 'we Britons' accept and value simple traditional British culture and values (i.e: from the time before the current 'me-me-me' generation): fairness, neighbourliness and tolerance: to name just three.

Lizzie Zoom wrote on 26. May 2009 at 14:58:




Seriously, the British cannot live in the "splendid isolation" of the nineteenth century


.........an undeniable fact Ms Zoom, nor should we

and now live in a global community where we affect each other in what we do more than every before.

........ that self same exposure to such global forces might well have bitten us very severly on the arse, Ms Zoom - do forgive my freedom

I do take you point, and yes I agree, we can't be too insular but I feel that we should be thinking just a wee bit more of the matters which directly relate to the wellbeing of this country and how they should be addressed without undue interference from outside forces

Lizzie Zoom wrote on 26. May 2009 at 15:27:



The sovereignty of our legislature, the integrity of our legal system and the right to a foreign and defense policy unimpeded by - and interfered with - unaccountable officials

We have bared our buttocks in the effort to remain a 'player' in world affairs and have been right royally thrashed for it.  I fear that we have been relegated to the depths of the 'league'. We must fix the things which are broken, the things that only a soveriegn nation can decide as those important for the wellbeing of its citizens

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I can understand what you are getting at Zulu and want to  agree.  However, the cold facts are that we are part of the international community, and for our true defence we now rely greatly on the USA, as does the whole of Europe as we have all done since 1945.  This country since then has failed to keep an entirely independant military force, dependant on American satellite technology and nuclear hardware.  Foreign policy is harnessed with Nato and the United Nations, with no country, not even the great USA, being able to act independantly from all others i.e. as with Iraq, Afganistan and the Middle East.

As for the legal situation, the European Union are attempting to harminise all European law, with the European Court supreme.  The British could of course withdraw from this arrangement, but it could well mean less legal protection for the average citizen.

The progress of hundreds of years to reach a far fairer, although not perfect, world cannot and should not be reversed on some shaky belief in a past world. That 'past' in fact produced great hardship for the working class, poor welfare, diabolical education, and the constant risk of war, famine, and death.

It is only one hundred years ago when David Lloyd George and Winston Churchill argued in the House of Commons against the Conservatives for a greatly increased budget for social reforms for 1909.  The Conservatives, considering the Anglo-German naval arms race, wanted eight Dreadnought battleships; " we want eight, we can't wait", whilst Lloyd George and Churchill wanted it cut by at least two to release more funds to give social care to the poor.

Do we really want a Europe were each nation is fighting for a 'place in the sun' with expensive empires regardless of the consequences for its citizens?

In my opinion we should just go forward and work to gether for a greater Europe at peace with itself.