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Why I'm very tempted by UKIP (Read 2307 times)
Lizzie Zoom
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #30 - 26. May 2009 at 17:59
 
Quote:
Lizzie Zoom wrote on 26. May 2009 at 15:58:
[quote author=2C3D2E353625202A3B2E3920232E4F0 link=1243284890/26#26 date=1243349553][quote author=4F6A79796A665C596C6C6E030 link=1243284890/25#25 date=1243348051][quote author=69786B707360656F7E6B7C65666B0A0 link=1243284890/24#24 date=1243347518][quote author=5C796A6A79754F4A7F7F7D100 link=1243284890/23#23 date=1243346335]
/quote]

I can understand what you are getting at Zulu and want to  agree.  However, the cold facts are that we are part of the international community, and for our true defence we now rely greatly on the USA, as does the whole of Europe as we have all done since 1945.  This country since then has failed to keep an entirely independant military force, dependant on American satellite technology and nuclear hardware.  Foreign policy is harnessed with Nato and the United Nations, with no country, not even the great USA, being able to act independantly from all others i.e. as with Iraq, Afganistan and the Middle East.

As for the legal situation, the European Union are attempting to harminise all European law, with the European Court supreme.  The British could of course withdraw from this arrangement, but it could well mean less legal protection for the average citizen.

The progress of hundreds of years to reach a far fairer, although not perfect, world cannot and should not be reversed on some shaky belief in a past world. That 'past' in fact produced great hardship for the working class, poor welfare, diabolical education, and the constant risk of war, famine, and death.

It is only one hundred years ago when David Lloyd George and Winston Churchill argued in the House of Commons against the Conservatives for a greatly increased budget for social reforms for 1909.  The Conservatives, considering the Anglo-German naval arms race, wanted eight Dreadnought battleships; " we want eight, we can't wait", whilst Lloyd George and Churchill wanted it cut by at least two to release more funds to give social care to the poor.

Do we really want a Europe were each nation is fighting for a 'place in the sun' with expensive empires regardless of the consequences for its citizens?

In my opinion we should just go forward and work to gether for a greater Europe at peace with itself. Cool Cool Wink




That 'past' in fact produced great hardship for the working class, poor welfare, diabolical education, and the constant risk of war, famine, and death

........and few lessons have been learnt Ms Zoom even with the might of this global movement

Do we really want a Europe were each nation is fighting for a 'place in the sun' with expensive empires regardless of the consequences for its citizens

....we should not, however, we should ensure that each and every one of our people come first.

In my opinion we should just go forward and work to gether for a greater Europe at peace with itself

....... I agree but we should be willing and able to do our own housekeeping Wink Thumbs Up!

Lord, it's great that you're back online Ms Zoom Cool Cool Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up!



Thanks Zulu, and some great observations from you there! Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up!  Oh, for that perfect world that we all want, but somehow is just so difficult to achieve with the politicians all countries have!!! Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Sad
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Lizzie Zoom  
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Zulu77
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #31 - 26. May 2009 at 18:04
 
Lizzie Zoom wrote on 26. May 2009 at 17:59:
Quote:
[quote author=7E5B48485B576D685D5D5F320 link=1243284890/27#27 date=1243349917][quote author=2C3D2E353625202A3B2E3920232E4F0 link=1243284890/26#26 date=1243349553][quote author=4F6A79796A665C596C6C6E030 link=1243284890/25#25 date=1243348051][quote author=69786B707360656F7E6B7C65666B0A0 link=1243284890/24#24 date=1243347518][quote author=5C796A6A79754F4A7F7F7D100 link=1243284890/23#23 date=1243346335]
/quote]

I can understand what you are getting at Zulu and want to  agree.  However, the cold facts are that we are part of the international community, and for our true defence we now rely greatly on the USA, as does the whole of Europe as we have all done since 1945.  This country since then has failed to keep an entirely independant military force, dependant on American satellite technology and nuclear hardware.  Foreign policy is harnessed with Nato and the United Nations, with no country, not even the great USA, being able to act independantly from all others i.e. as with Iraq, Afganistan and the Middle East.

As for the legal situation, the European Union are attempting to harminise all European law, with the European Court supreme.  The British could of course withdraw from this arrangement, but it could well mean less legal protection for the average citizen.

The progress of hundreds of years to reach a far fairer, although not perfect, world cannot and should not be reversed on some shaky belief in a past world. That 'past' in fact produced great hardship for the working class, poor welfare, diabolical education, and the constant risk of war, famine, and death.

It is only one hundred years ago when David Lloyd George and Winston Churchill argued in the House of Commons against the Conservatives for a greatly increased budget for social reforms for 1909.  The Conservatives, considering the Anglo-German naval arms race, wanted eight Dreadnought battleships; " we want eight, we can't wait", whilst Lloyd George and Churchill wanted it cut by at least two to release more funds to give social care to the poor.

Do we really want a Europe were each nation is fighting for a 'place in the sun' with expensive empires regardless of the consequences for its citizens?

In my opinion we should just go forward and work to gether for a greater Europe at peace with itself. Cool Cool Wink




That 'past' in fact produced great hardship for the working class, poor welfare, diabolical education, and the constant risk of war, famine, and death

........and few lessons have been learnt Ms Zoom even with the might of this global movement

Do we really want a Europe were each nation is fighting for a 'place in the sun' with expensive empires regardless of the consequences for its citizens

....we should not, however, we should ensure that each and every one of our people come first.

In my opinion we should just go forward and work to gether for a greater Europe at peace with itself

....... I agree but we should be willing and able to do our own housekeeping Wink Thumbs Up!

Lord, it's great that you're back online Ms Zoom Cool Cool Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up!



Thanks Zulu, and some great observations from you there! Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up!  Oh, for that perfect world that we all want, but somehow is just so difficult to achieve with the politicians all countries have!!! Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Sad[/quote

Amen to that Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up!
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Holy Count
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #32 - 26. May 2009 at 19:14
 
I am so pleaseed that Zulu is here -- often saying what I think, but putting it so much more eloquently than my addled brain can manage at the moment !
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Zulu77
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #33 - 26. May 2009 at 19:29
 
Quote:
I am so pleaseed that Zulu is here -- often saying what I think, but putting it so much more eloquently than my addled brain can manage at the moment !


No, no, no,  my Lord  it is I who should be thankful for your keen sense of justice and fair play - and for that, I kneel before you Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up!
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Martin Imber
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #34 - 26. May 2009 at 19:37
 
Interesting thread Thumbs Up!
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Darth Loo-knee
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #35 - 26. May 2009 at 19:41
 
Send the Buggars back  Wink
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Holy Count
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #36 - 26. May 2009 at 19:46
 
Quote:
Quote:
I am so pleaseed that Zulu is here -- often saying what I think, but putting it so much more eloquently than my addled brain can manage at the moment !


No, no, no,  my Lord  it is I who should be thankful for your keen sense of justice and fair play - and for that, I kneel before you Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up!


It's in the genes  Wink
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AmigoMV6
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #37 - 26. May 2009 at 19:49
 
Ironic. I got a BNP leaflet through the door the other day. It was the first one i read before binning, (binned my polling card anyway) but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work. I don't posess the factual knowledge to match some comments made but if my memory serves me well they fought hard along side us in WW2 so it ails me somewhat when ignorant folk knock 'em. Roll Eyes
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Lizzie Zoom
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Ashford, Kent
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Drives: 2000 Omega 3.0 Elite Auto
Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #38 - 26. May 2009 at 19:53
 
Quote:
Ironic. I got a BNP leaflet through the door the other day. It was the first one i read before binning, (binned my polling card anyway) but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work. I don't posess the factual knowledge to match some comments made but if my memory serves me well they fought hard along side us in WW2 so it ails me somewhat when ignorant folk knock 'em. Roll Eyes


Yes Amigo, 141 Polish airmen took part in the Battle of Britain, with 29 being killed Cry Cry Cry.  Brave men every one  of them! Cool Cool Cool
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Zulu77
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #39 - 26. May 2009 at 19:56
 
Quote:
Ironic. I got a BNP leaflet through the door the other day. It was the first one i read before binning, (binned my polling card anyway) but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work. I don't posess the factual knowledge to match some comments made but if my memory serves me well they fought hard along side us in WW2 so it ails me somewhat when ignorant folk knock 'em. Roll Eyes




but if my memory serves me well they fought hard along side us in WW2 so it ails me somewhat when ignorant folk knock 'em.


Very well put Amigo Thumbs Up! Thumbs Up!
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Holy Count
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #40 - 26. May 2009 at 19:59
 
As has been mentioned on this and other threads earlier --- we should have nothing against the Poles, or indeed any other people who contribute -- as they do .. it's the bludgers we should get tough on !!!!
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KillerWatt
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #41 - 26. May 2009 at 20:46
 
Quote:
but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work.

Just don't let them wire your house up, unless you are tired of living.
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Zulu77
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #42 - 27. May 2009 at 13:27
 
Quote:
Quote:
but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work.

Just don't let them wire your house up, unless you are tired of living.



Quite frankly I'm shocked by that remark Killer Grin Grin Grin Thumbs Up!
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AndyVXR300
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Re: Why I'm very tempted by UKIP
Reply #43 - 27. May 2009 at 13:33
 
Quote:
Quote:
but i feel i must mention the
Polish. Out of 12 drivers 2 or 3 are poles (they come & go) but they are friendly, hard working, make the effort to integrate & claim nothing, all they want to do is work.

Just don't let them wire your house up, unless you are tired of living.


The polish are decent people as you say Thumbs Up!
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