Omega Owners Forum - What would YOU have done?

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #15 - 14. Nov 2009 at 11:07

Nickbat wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 10:01:

Entwood wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 01:17:

As I understand it, the concern was that any action taken would have put the couple in extreme danger .....

There is really not a lot of point in "rescuing" someone if it results in their death .... Sad

Perhaps it is a good job the RFA was manned by professionals (who know what they can and can't do) and not by members of OOF .....

There is an interesting point here, which no one has picked up and that is the fact that this report was leaked to the press by a crew member. To me, that suggests a very disgruntled crew member. In turn, that suggests to me that - perhaps - an opportunity to rescue the couple was missed.

Maybe it took time to get a phone call through to the valid Health & Safety Department. Roll Eyes

Just speculating. Wink

...questioning of orders isn't a new thing Nick, it happens more than imagined.

The difference between inappropriate and hasty action and a considered well thought out response to such an incident is a choice between life and death.

Never an easy decision to made in any given theatre of operation, but then that's what standing orders are all about, the mitigation of untoward harm coming to those under one's command and to those whom it's our duty to protect.

Once rounds are discharged the situation changes in dynamic rapidly and the result is not always the one hoped for.

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Chris_H

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #16 - 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?
Edited:

Ok read the news report now and it wasn't a warship but I still think it's a ridiculous opportunity missed that any military vessel on that area is not equipped; possibly merchant navy as well.

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« Last Edit: 14. Nov 2009 at 15:32 by Chris_H »

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STMO123 Ex Member	Re: What would YOU have done? Reply #17 - 14. Nov 2009 at 15:32 The Royal Navy can only afford one sniper and it was his day off.
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Guffer

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #18 - 14. Nov 2009 at 15:34

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28:

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?

Its a cargo ship delivering supplies and personnel to the ships working in the area. Its like asking a hgv to follow and stop a rally car, it just aint gonna happen!

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RIP Lisa, you will be missed Cry

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STMO123

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #19 - 14. Nov 2009 at 15:36

Guffer wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:34:

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28:

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?

Its a cargo ship delivering supplies and personnel to the ships working in the area. Its like asking a hgv to follow and stop a rally car, it just aint gonna happen!

So...when it all boils down to it, the tw@t who blew the whistle should have just kept his gob shut.

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« Last Edit: 14. Nov 2009 at 15:36 by N/A »

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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #20 - 14. Nov 2009 at 15:37

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28:

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?

I think that is the important point here. This "warship" is a Royal Fleet Auxilary, not designed or armed for hostile engagement, and no doubt carrying very large quantities of fuel for RAS'ing. It is also manned by civilians.

They would have not only endangered this couple, by would have put their ship and lives at risk unnecessarily.

I must also add that this area is very well known as being very dangerous for any ship or boat, and their crews, of any size. So why, o' why did this couple act so stupidly as to sail into it?? Roll Eyes

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« Last Edit: 14. Nov 2009 at 15:40 by Lizzie Zoom »

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Chris_H

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #21 - 14. Nov 2009 at 15:42

Quote:

Guffer wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:34:

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28:

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?

Its a cargo ship delivering supplies and personnel to the ships working in the area. Its like asking a hgv to follow and stop a rally car, it just aint gonna happen!

So...when it all boils down to it, the tw@t who blew the whistle should have just kept his gob shut.

He almost certainly should have kept his mouth shut, especially if he was Service.

I still think it's just as mad having an unsuitably-armed military vessel in those waters as it is for the couple to be there in the first place.

The real warships should be putting men on board any UK-registered ship that has to go there. The pirates will be nicking our supply vessels next.

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Entwood

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #22 - 14. Nov 2009 at 15:56

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:42:

Quote:

Guffer wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:34:

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28:

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?

Its a cargo ship delivering supplies and personnel to the ships working in the area. Its like asking a hgv to follow and stop a rally car, it just aint gonna happen!

So...when it all boils down to it, the tw@t who blew the whistle should have just kept his gob shut.

He almost certainly should have kept his mouth shut, especially if he was Service.

I still think it's just as mad having an unsuitably-armed military vessel in those waters as it is for the couple to be there in the first place.

The real warships should be putting men on board any UK-registered ship that has to go there. The pirates will be nicking our supply vessels next.

The RFA vessel is there to re-supply the "real" ships doing the job. A modern warship uses a surprising amount of consumeables .. from food to fuel ... and a lot of time would be wasted if they had to "go off station" to a friendly port to resupply all the time.

It is probably simple coincidence that the RFA was "there" and not a "real" warship .. although depending on what was ACTUALLY happening rather than uninformd guesswork . a "real" warship may have been constrained by the same circumstances .... a rescue that ends up with the hostages dead is pretty pointless.

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« Last Edit: 14. Nov 2009 at 15:57 by Entwood »

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chrisgixer Omega King Offline Black ones are faster. Posts: 14570 Wokingham Gender: Drives: "Omega Black" 3.2 Elite. Thanks to Joshwyatt.	Re: What would YOU have done? Reply #23 - 14. Nov 2009 at 17:07 as i understand it, hostages have always been well treated by pirates in that region? Given the circumstances, not worth opening fire. Even if it where possible. Too risky. But i am sure the oof marines would have sorted that problem "right" out. No problem at all.
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Nickbat

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #24 - 14. Nov 2009 at 17:16

Lizzie Zoom wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:37:

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28:

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?

I think that is the important point here. This "warship" is a Royal Fleet Auxilary, not designed or armed for hostile engagement, and no doubt carrying very large quantities of fuel for RAS'ing. It is also manned by civilians.

They would have not only endangered this couple, by would have put their ship and lives at risk unnecessarily.

I must also add that this area is very well known as being very dangerous for any ship or boat, and their crews, of any size. So why, o' why did this couple act so stupidly as to sail into it?? Roll Eyes

From link below:

The Commanding Officer of RFA Wave Knight, Captain Pilling, said:

"RFA Wave Knight is a modern replenishment ship designed to be able to support a myriad of coalition maritime operations. Our primary role is refuelling and aviation operations, but we are fully capable of conducting anti-piracy operations in and around the Horn of Africa.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-events/rn-live/all-news/rfa-wave-knight-dis...

Huh

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Lizzie Zoom

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #25 - 14. Nov 2009 at 17:19

Nickbat wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 17:16:

Lizzie Zoom wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:37:

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28:

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?

I think that is the important point here. This "warship" is a Royal Fleet Auxilary, not designed or armed for hostile engagement, and no doubt carrying very large quantities of fuel for RAS'ing. It is also manned by civilians.

They would have not only endangered this couple, by would have put their ship and lives at risk unnecessarily.

I must also add that this area is very well known as being very dangerous for any ship or boat, and their crews, of any size. So why, o' why did this couple act so stupidly as to sail into it?? Roll Eyes

From link below:

The Commanding Officer of RFA Wave Knight, Captain Pilling, said:

"RFA Wave Knight is a modern replenishment ship designed to be able to support a myriad of coalition maritime operations. Our primary role is refuelling and aviation operations, but we are fully capable of conducting anti-piracy operations in and around the Horn of Africa.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-events/rn-live/all-news/rfa-wave-knight-dis...

Huh

He is saying that in context of working with fully armed warships, not with his unarmed, civilian manned, RFA Nick. Wink

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Nickbat

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #26 - 14. Nov 2009 at 17:20

Lizzie Zoom wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 17:19:

Nickbat wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 17:16:

Lizzie Zoom wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:37:

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28:

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?

I think that is the important point here. This "warship" is a Royal Fleet Auxilary, not designed or armed for hostile engagement, and no doubt carrying very large quantities of fuel for RAS'ing. It is also manned by civilians.

They would have not only endangered this couple, by would have put their ship and lives at risk unnecessarily.

I must also add that this area is very well known as being very dangerous for any ship or boat, and their crews, of any size. So why, o' why did this couple act so stupidly as to sail into it?? Roll Eyes

From link below:

The Commanding Officer of RFA Wave Knight, Captain Pilling, said:

"RFA Wave Knight is a modern replenishment ship designed to be able to support a myriad of coalition maritime operations. Our primary role is refuelling and aviation operations, but we are fully capable of conducting anti-piracy operations in and around the Horn of Africa.

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-events/rn-live/all-news/rfa-wave-knight-dis...

Huh

He is saying that in context of working with fully armed warships, not with his unarmed, civilian manned, RFA Nick. Wink

Read the link again, Lizzie... Wink

"Wave Knight ordered the dhow to stop and used a Royal Navy armed force protection team as well as the ship's own weapons team to provide cover."

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« Last Edit: 14. Nov 2009 at 17:21 by Nickbat »

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PhilRich

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #27 - 14. Nov 2009 at 21:15

Our armed forces, especially the RN & RFA are supreme professionals and the 'best there is' anywhere.They are only constrained by Operational Necessity and Political Expediency. If it had been in any way possible for that couple to be freed without them coming to harm, this incident would now be 'old news' & they would be back home signing book/film rights to 'their' story. As for the 'dripper' who leaked the story? well....nuf said about him. Thumbs Up!

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Apparently the Skipper said "Hard a Port!" but I went to Starboard, 'cos i'm Hard a Hearin'!

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BigAl

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Re: What would YOU have done?
Reply #28 - 15. Nov 2009 at 02:06

Lizzie Zoom wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:37:

Chris_H wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 15:28:

I take a different line (what's new! Cheesy

).

What's a warship doing in the vicinity un-prepared for tackling pirates? The opportunity must be one the navy could only dream of.

Was Homer Simpson running the show?

I think that is the important point here. This "warship" is a Royal Fleet Auxilary, not designed or armed for hostile engagement, and no doubt carrying very large quantities of fuel for RAS'ing. It is also manned by civilians.

They would have not only endangered this couple, by would have put their ship and lives at risk unnecessarily.

I must also add that this area is very well known as being very dangerous for any ship or boat, and their crews, of any size. So why, o' why did this couple act so stupidly as to sail into it?? Roll Eyes

So why where the poor chaps from the RFA in the same scary area without Naval protection?

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Guffer Omega Lord Offline Music to watch girls by.... Posts: 6142 Hampshire Gender: Drives: R Reg 2.5V6 Omega ELITE & P reg Omega 2.5 V6 CDX	Re: What would YOU have done? Reply #29 - 15. Nov 2009 at 09:20 Nickbat wrote on 14. Nov 2009 at 17:20: Read the link again, Lizzie... "Wave Knight ordered the dhow to stop and used a Royal Navy armed force protection team as well as the ship's own weapons team to provide cover." On an RFA thats speak for an old man with a pellet gun.
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