Omega Owners Forum - Horizon - Questioning of Science

Desperate Den

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #105 - 03. Feb 2011 at 14:34

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 14:33:

Desperate Den wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 14:09:

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 13:46:

wow Nickbat - seriously out with the 99% - i was actually being generous as no national or international scientific body agrees with you - but i thought saying 100% was cruel and i wanted to give you a bit of wriggle room - nevermind.

100% it is then Thumbs Up!

you're wrong, I know everyones dancing around the issue trying not to start another tiresome debate - but you are wrong on this - very wrong - you just havent realised it yet - fair play to you - it used to be amusing, but its getting tiresome Sad

How do you know you are right BJ?

Insofar as the 'tiresome' aspect of Nick's reluctance to accept what you say as being gospel, is it not justified to continue debating and questioning an issue the ramifications of which (if various proposals are adopted) will fundamentally alter our present way of life.

I think Lizzie is right enough to say we will all know in due course but is it sensible to surrender to scientific ‘fact’ when science seldom stands still in the understanding of whatever subject matter is being tested?

I think we should be additionally suspicious when this whole matter has struck the interest of those who see an opportunity to make money and political gain out of it.

Science has been wrong many times in the past and while it’s right to examine the undoubted changes to our environment both topographical and atmospheric, let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

sorry Zulu - the whole "its a big conspiracy involving every government on the planet" schtick doesnt wash with me - its science not belief Shocked

I didn't say it was a conspiracy BJ.

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Nickbat

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #106 - 03. Feb 2011 at 14:35

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 13:46:

wow Nickbat - seriously out with the 99% - i was actually being generous as no national or international scientific body agrees with you - but i thought saying 100% was cruel and i wanted to give you a bit of wriggle room - nevermind.

100% it is then Thumbs Up!

you're wrong, I know everyones dancing around the issue trying not to start another tiresome debate - but you are wrong on this - very wrong - you just havent realised it yet - fair play to you - it used to be amusing, but its getting tiresome Sad

If you would care to read the PDF at this link you will find that there are over 1,000 dissenting scientists, a figure which you may want to compare with the 52 that participated in the IPCC Summary.

http://69.16.184.196/g9z6c6z5/cds/p/b/f/6/bf663fd2376ffeca/2010_Senate_Minority_...

Thumbs Up!

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Banjax

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #107 - 03. Feb 2011 at 14:46

Nickbat wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 14:35:

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 13:46:

wow Nickbat - seriously out with the 99% - i was actually being generous as no national or international scientific body agrees with you - but i thought saying 100% was cruel and i wanted to give you a bit of wriggle room - nevermind.

100% it is then Thumbs Up!

you're wrong, I know everyones dancing around the issue trying not to start another tiresome debate - but you are wrong on this - very wrong - you just havent realised it yet - fair play to you - it used to be amusing, but its getting tiresome Sad

If you would care to read the PDF at this link you will find that there are over 1,000 dissenting scientists, a figure which you may want to compare with the 52 that participated in the IPCC Summary.

http://69.16.184.196/g9z6c6z5/cds/p/b/f/6/bf663fd2376ffeca/2010_Senate_Minority_...

Thumbs Up!

su-ure - i'll read it Nickbat.......just like everyone else does.....honest Thumbs Up!

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50 bucks!?! For 50 bucks I'd put my face in their soup and blow!!

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Banjax

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #108 - 03. Feb 2011 at 14:50

Desperate Den wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 14:34:

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 14:33:

Desperate Den wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 14:09:

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 13:46:

wow Nickbat - seriously out with the 99% - i was actually being generous as no national or international scientific body agrees with you - but i thought saying 100% was cruel and i wanted to give you a bit of wriggle room - nevermind.

100% it is then Thumbs Up!

you're wrong, I know everyones dancing around the issue trying not to start another tiresome debate - but you are wrong on this - very wrong - you just havent realised it yet - fair play to you - it used to be amusing, but its getting tiresome Sad

How do you know you are right BJ?

Insofar as the 'tiresome' aspect of Nick's reluctance to accept what you say as being gospel, is it not justified to continue debating and questioning an issue the ramifications of which (if various proposals are adopted) will fundamentally alter our present way of life.

I think Lizzie is right enough to say we will all know in due course but is it sensible to surrender to scientific ‘fact’ when science seldom stands still in the understanding of whatever subject matter is being tested?

I think we should be additionally suspicious when this whole matter has struck the interest of those who see an opportunity to make money and political gain out of it.

Science has been wrong many times in the past and while it’s right to examine the undoubted changes to our environment both topographical and atmospheric, let’s not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

sorry Zulu - the whole "its a big conspiracy involving every government on the planet" schtick doesnt wash with me - its science not belief Shocked

I didn't say it was a conspiracy BJ.

i think the problem arises when you give valuable, lengthy and exhaustive scientific research the same weight as unqualified spurious gibbering Thumbs Up!

I'm as sceptical as the next man, and the value of scepticism cannot be underestimated or quashed, but on this one, the debates over.

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Nickbat

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #109 - 03. Feb 2011 at 15:00

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 14:50:

i think the problem arises when you give valuable, lengthy and exhaustive scientific research the same weight as unqualified spurious gibbering Thumbs Up!

I'm as sceptical as the next man, and the value of scepticism cannot be underestimated or quashed, but on this one, the debates over.

“Any reasonable scientific analysis must conclude the basic theory wrong!!”

-- NASA Scientist Dr. Leonard Weinstein who worked 35 years at the NASA Langley Research Center and finished his career there as a Senior Research Scientist. Weinstein is presently a Senior Research Fellow at the National Institute of Aerospace.

“The dysfunctional nature of the climate sciences is nothing short of a scandal. Science is too important for our society to be misused in the way it has been done within the Climate Science Community.” The global warming establishment “has actively suppressed research results presented by researchers that do not comply with the dogma of the IPCC.”

-- Swedish Climatologist Dr. Hans Jelbring of the Paleogeophysics & Geodynamics Unit at Stockholm University.

Two unqualified men spouting gibberish, eh? I must write and advise them of your valued opinion.

Grin

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Banjax Omega Lord Offline We're just a virus with shoes Posts: 5591 Perth Gender: Drives: '04 Subaru Legacy Sport, '03 406 diesel	Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science Reply #110 - 03. Feb 2011 at 15:06 "any idiot can pull unattributable quotes by people no ones heard of off a website" Banjax the Wise, Hobbiton, The Shire
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Nickbat Omega Lord Offline Posts: 7167 London NW7 Gender: Drives: 2002 2.6CD Auto	Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science Reply #111 - 03. Feb 2011 at 15:08 Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 15:06: "any idiot can pull unattributable quotes by people no ones heard of off a website" Banjax the Wise, Hobbiton, The Shire Calling me an idiot now? How quaint, BJ.
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Banjax

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #112 - 03. Feb 2011 at 15:14

Nickbat wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 15:08:

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 15:06:

"any idiot can pull unattributable quotes by people no ones heard of off a website" Banjax the Wise, Hobbiton, The Shire

Calling me an idiot now? How quaint, BJ. Roll Eyes

you're not an idiot - i'm an idiot for wasting your time and mine on pointless debate - tell you what - give me the one irrefutable fact in your arsenal that says to you "take away everything else and this alone would prove it" see if that works..of all the info what the biggie, the smoking gun...if you had just one fact to use what one would you use?

no trick, just curious Thumbs Up!

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Desperate Den

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #113 - 03. Feb 2011 at 15:21

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 14:50:

i think the problem arises when you give valuable, lengthy and exhaustive scientific research the same weight as unqualified spurious gibbering Thumbs Up!

I'm as sceptical as the next man, and the value of scepticism cannot be underestimated or quashed, but on this one, the debates over.

Yes that's fair enough BJ but although many former and existing skeptics can make convincing converts, I'll wait a while on that aria from the fat lady.

In the meantime I will continue the effort to make my own impact on the environment as gentle as possible.

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Banjax Omega Lord Offline We're just a virus with shoes Posts: 5591 Perth Gender: Drives: '04 Subaru Legacy Sport, '03 406 diesel	Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science Reply #114 - 03. Feb 2011 at 15:30 damn Z, i wish i was as cool, calm, reasonable and rational as your good self well said and fair play
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cem

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #115 - 03. Feb 2011 at 15:42

aaronjb wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 13:15:

cem wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 10:53:

"which puts the net figures at 29 GtCO2 emissions for anthropogenic and a net 17 GtCO2 (450-439+338-332) absorbtion from natural sources"

[img] I think its completely ridiculous to debate whats obvious..[/highlight]

Concerning science it is never wrong to debate what is 'obvious' ..

If people throughout the ages had taken that stance we would still believe the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat and they'd never have bothered looking to see whether it was true or not since it was 'obvious' it couldn't be any other way.

in principle correct, in reality and practice, waste of time..

reality :we are consuming lots of hydrocarbon that produces CO2..

counter argument :no we dont Grin

its negligible.. Huh

its like smoking in a room and saying , negligible Grin

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« Last Edit: 03. Feb 2011 at 15:42 by cem »

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cem

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #116 - 03. Feb 2011 at 15:55

lets be honest, there is no easy , cheap, abundant energy source like fossil fuels.. and most govts and countries trying to delay the envitable expensive precautions they must take (of which they still dont know).. and rejecting the truth simply..

and for scientists , before believing them I do believe my very eyes that everyday industry and households, hundreds of millions of cars are flowing on roads emitting CO2 which the nature cant absorb !!(as seen in my previous post)

so whats the point in debating that ? Huh

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Banjax

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #117 - 03. Feb 2011 at 15:58

cem wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 15:55:

lets be honest, there is no easy , cheap, abundant energy source like fossil fuels.. and most govts and countries trying to delay the envitable expensive precautions they must take (of which they still dont know).. and rejecting the truth simply..

and for scientists , before believing them I do believe my very eyes that everyday industry and households, hundreds of millions of cars are flowing on roads emitting CO2 which the nature cant absorb !!(as seen in my previous post)

so whats the point in debating that ? Huh

well said the wise man from the East Thumbs Up!

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aaronjb

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #118 - 03. Feb 2011 at 16:11

cem wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 15:42:

aaronjb wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 13:15:

cem wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 10:53:

"which puts the net figures at 29 GtCO2 emissions for anthropogenic and a net 17 GtCO2 (450-439+338-332) absorbtion from natural sources"

[img]

Concerning science it is never wrong to debate what is 'obvious' ..

If people throughout the ages had taken that stance we would still believe the sun went around the earth and that the earth was flat and they'd never have bothered looking to see whether it was true or not since it was 'obvious' it couldn't be any other way.

in principle correct, in reality and practice, waste of time..

reality :we are consuming lots of hydrocarbon that produces CO2..

counter argument :no we dont Grin

its negligible.. Huh

its like smoking in a room and saying , negligible Grin

Yes, we're producing lots of CO2, I'm sure - I'm not debating that fact.

What I am saying is that there seem to be two schools of thought on this (of which you seem to fall into the former):

1) We 'know' for 'sure' that all this CO2 is going to 'kill' the planet because we 'know' for 'sure' that the planet can't 'cope' with all this CO2.
2) We don't know for sure whether or not the planets ecosystem can adapt and survive or whether we are having an irreversible effect on the planet.

There is a point debating that. Like I say, if you stop debating science .. well, we would all still believe the earth was flat and the sun rotated around it.

*shrug* Personally, I don't much care for either argument surrounding 'global warming' or 'climate change' or whatever you want to call it; I'm just a tiny little man who hasn't studied for years, earned degrees and digested thousands of pages worth of scientific journal, so I do not consider myself well placed to argue either side.

But being blinkered toward either side of the climate change argument is just.. silly and, well, blinkered.

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..and it went 'dugga dugga dugga dugga'..

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cem

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Re: Horizon - Questioning of Science
Reply #119 - 03. Feb 2011 at 16:30

Banjax wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 15:58:

cem wrote on 03. Feb 2011 at 15:55:

lets be honest, there is no easy , cheap, abundant energy source like fossil fuels.. and most govts and countries trying to delay the envitable expensive precautions they must take (of which they still dont know).. and rejecting the truth simply..

and for scientists , before believing them I do believe my very eyes that everyday industry and households, hundreds of millions of cars are flowing on roads emitting CO2 which the nature cant absorb !!(as seen in my previous post)

so whats the point in debating that ? Huh

well said the wise man from the East Thumbs Up!

thanks Banjax Thumbs Up!

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