Omega Owners Forum - new airgun law

Desperate Den Omega King Offline Posts: 11881	Re: new airgun law Reply #30 - 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32 Lazydocker wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:22: Try this one: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/press-releases/lock-and-key That's the one LD
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Guffer

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #31 - 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32

tunnie wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:16:

I could do with an air-gun actually, take out the pigeons on the roof opposite

A tongue in cheek comment Tunnie I know Thumbs Up!

But the other laws on airgun usage are quite clear:

- You must have the land-owners permission to use an airgun.
- The pellets cannot leave the boundaries of that land.
- You cannot shoot over a public right of way
- You cannot shoot within a 50 feet of a public right of way.

Shooting ettiquette, some of these are covered by cruelty laws:

- Ensure that the weapon is properly zeroed
- Ensure the weapon is suitable for the task. ie you have enough power (muzzle velocity) for the type and size of animal you are to dispatch.
- Ensure you are not too far away so as to cause the pellet to loose sufficient power.
- Ensure you are able to dispatch the animal with a clean and accurate shot so as to cause minimum distress to the animal.
- Follow-up each shot animal as soon as possible so as to ensure quick dispatch.

Oh, and who mentionned rabbit pie? mmmmmmmm Tongue

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Lazydocker

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #32 - 04. Feb 2011 at 09:36

Guffer wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32:

tunnie wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:16:

I could do with an air-gun actually, take out the pigeons on the roof opposite

A tongue in cheek comment Tunnie I know Thumbs Up!

But the other laws on airgun usage are quite clear:

- You must have the land-owners permission to use an airgun.
- The pellets cannot leave the boundaries of that land.
- You cannot shoot over a public right of way
- You cannot shoot within a 50 feet of a public right of way.

Shooting ettiquette, some of these are covered by cruelty laws:

- Ensure that the weapon is properly zeroed
- Ensure the weapon is suitable for the task. ie you have enough power (muzzle velocity) for the type and size of animal you are to dispatch.
- Ensure you are not too far away so as to cause the pellet to loose sufficient power.
- Ensure you are able to dispatch the animal with a clean and accurate shot so as to cause minimum distress to the animal.
- Follow-up each shot animal as soon as possible so as to ensure quick dispatch.

Oh, and who mentionned rabbit pie? mmmmmmmm Tongue

Yummy! Have it quite frequently actually... The Rabbits are a real issue around here and, fortunately, I live on a private estate Thumbs Up!

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Guffer

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #33 - 04. Feb 2011 at 09:37

Desperate Den wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32:

Lazydocker wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:22:

Try this one: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/press-releases/lock-and-key

That's the one LD Thumbs Up!

Interesting, as I have no kids in my house I wonder if just leaving it in an unlocked cupboard would be suitable? No kids have access to my house so keeping the doors locked when I am out should be sufficient according to that link?

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tunnie

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #34 - 04. Feb 2011 at 09:43

Guffer wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32:

tunnie wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:16:

I could do with an air-gun actually, take out the pigeons on the roof opposite

A tongue in cheek comment Tunnie I know Thumbs Up!

But the other laws on airgun usage are quite clear:

Shooting ettiquette, some of these are covered by cruelty laws:

Interesting, cheers for that. In my case:

- You must have the land-owners permission to use an airgun.

Could easily be arranged, Pigeons are known to be a pest, and the managment company of the building don't want them. Nor do Orange/T-Mobile/O2 who rent the roof.

- The pellets cannot leave the boundaries of that land.

This is the only stumbler point, I guess they could easily leave

- You cannot shoot over a public right of way

If I shot in direction of the shops yes, but, behind the flats the land is owned by Network Rail, so I can shoot in that direction!

- You cannot shoot within a 50 feet of a public right of way.

Does that include a vertical 50ft? I am on the 5th floor of 6.

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Guffer Omega Lord Offline Music to watch girls by.... Posts: 6142 Hampshire Gender: Drives: R Reg 2.5V6 Omega ELITE & P reg Omega 2.5 V6 CDX	Re: new airgun law Reply #35 - 04. Feb 2011 at 09:46 Just spoke to the Home Office and he directed me to this HO Circular on the new law: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-us/home-office-circulars/circulars-2011/004-2...
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Lazydocker

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #36 - 04. Feb 2011 at 09:48

Guffer wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:37:

Desperate Den wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32:

Lazydocker wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:22:

Try this one: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/press-releases/lock-and-key

That's the one LD Thumbs Up!

Interesting, as I have no kids in my house I wonder if just leaving it in an unlocked cupboard would be suitable? No kids have access to my house so keeping the doors locked when I am out should be sufficient according to that link?

I was having the same thoughts... It doesn't actually say it must be kept locked up, just out of the way of children Undecided

Won't change how mine is kept though... I know it's safe that way Wink

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Guffer

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #37 - 04. Feb 2011 at 09:52

tunnie wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:43:

Guffer wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32:

tunnie wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:16:

I could do with an air-gun actually, take out the pigeons on the roof opposite

A tongue in cheek comment Tunnie I know Thumbs Up!

But the other laws on airgun usage are quite clear:

Shooting ettiquette, some of these are covered by cruelty laws:

Interesting, cheers for that. In my case:

- You must have the land-owners permission to use an airgun.

Could easily be arranged, Pigeons are known to be a pest, and the managment company of the building don't want them. Nor do Orange/T-Mobile/O2 who rent the roof.

- The pellets cannot leave the boundaries of that land.

This is the only stumbler point, I guess they could easily leave

- You cannot shoot over a public right of way

If I shot in direction of the shops yes, but, behind the flats the land is owned by Network Rail, so I can shoot in that direction!

- You cannot shoot within a 50 feet of a public right of way.

Does that include a vertical 50ft? I am on the 5th floor of 6.

I think in your situation you would need a vermin control certificate and even then the preference would be to use deterence rather than shooting in this instance.

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RIP Lisa, you will be missed Cry

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cem

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #38 - 04. Feb 2011 at 09:57

geoffr70 wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 00:58:

They are fire arms. I have seen the damage so called pests can do, and yes I bloody would question their use as pest control thanks very much. Like I said it's their planet aswell. We arrogant humans seem to think it's acceptable to kill animals for our own convenience.

Have I been shooting? Are you having a laugh? I've fired more guns than I care to remember. I can strip them blindfolded and re-assemble them after cleaning and oiling them. I've shot and been shot at, and not for retarded blood thirsty 'sport' reasons either, thinly veiled as pest control or not.

Look, I can do a smiley face aswell Thumbs Up!

Edit to add

Incidentally, when pests try and destroy all my crops, I don't bloody shoot them. So to that end, how do you justify shooting innocent animals who are trying to get food for themselves and their young?

I also have an air.. and see what damage it makes on wood and other things.. Shocked

extremely dangerous .. ( I didnt know before I buy) and must never be used on animals..

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Desperate Den

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #39 - 04. Feb 2011 at 10:01

Guffer wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:37:

Desperate Den wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32:

Lazydocker wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:22:

Try this one: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/press-releases/lock-and-key

That's the one LD Thumbs Up!

Interesting, as I have no kids in my house I wonder if just leaving it in an unlocked cupboard would be suitable? No kids have access to my house so keeping the doors locked when I am out should be sufficient according to that link?

I think the question of safe custody may come in here G.

Any firearm (including air weapons) must be secured when not in use (sensibly).

In the event or any holder leaving a firearm in those circumstances I would imagine that the Firearms Certificate would be revoked.

Where the circumstances involved a person under the age of 18 unlawfully breaking into your premises and discovering the unsecured weapon (irrespective of the offences he/she/it commits) then the amended S 46 could apply to the holder of the weapon 'permitting' by way of not securing it. (In the generally accepted sense of the legislation)

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Entwood

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #40 - 04. Feb 2011 at 10:12

Guffer wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:37:

Desperate Den wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32:

Lazydocker wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:22:

Try this one: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/press-releases/lock-and-key

That's the one LD Thumbs Up!

Interesting, as I have no kids in my house I wonder if just leaving it in an unlocked cupboard would be suitable? No kids have access to my house so keeping the doors locked when I am out should be sufficient according to that link?

Given the new directive .. you would have to argue, in court, the "reasonableness" of your decision.

The new directive does NOT stipulate how you must secure the weapon .. in fact it is at pains NOT to do so ..

Quote:

2. Section 46 inserts a new section 24ZA into the Firearms Act 1968, which makes it an offence for a person in possession of an air weapon to fail to take reasonable precautions to prevent someone under the age of 18 from gaining unauthorised access to it.......

and

Quote:

6. The new offence requires people to take ‘reasonable precautions’ to prevent unauthorised access to an air weapon by young persons aged under 18. What will constitute ‘reasonable precautions’ will depend on the particular circumstances in each individual case and it is therefore not possible to be prescriptive. However, the simple steps set out below are a useful starting point. ......

I actually think some common sense may (?) have crept into the drafting of this legislation

In your example .. it could be argued that the kids would just have to break a window to access the weapon, so the precautions were not reasonable. If the weapon was also in a locked cupboard then more reasonable precautions had been taken .

Don't know .. would need to be argued in court.

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« Last Edit: 04. Feb 2011 at 10:17 by Entwood »

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Guffer

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #41 - 04. Feb 2011 at 10:14

Desperate Den wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 10:01:

Guffer wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:37:

Desperate Den wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:32:

Lazydocker wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:22:

Try this one: http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/press-releases/lock-and-key

That's the one LD Thumbs Up!

Interesting, as I have no kids in my house I wonder if just leaving it in an unlocked cupboard would be suitable? No kids have access to my house so keeping the doors locked when I am out should be sufficient according to that link?

I think the question of safe custody may come in here G.

Any firearm (including air weapons) must be secured when not in use (sensibly).

In the event or any holder leaving a firearm in those circumstances I would imagine that the Firearms Certificate would be revoked.

Where the circumstances involved a person under the age of 18 unlawfully breaking into your premises and discovering the unsecured weapon (irrespective of the offences he/she/it commits) then the amended S 46 could apply to the holder of the weapon 'permitting' by way of not securing it. (In the generally accepted sense of the legislation)

I have wondered that too Zulu Undecided

Also, even though an FAC is not required for an air weapon rated below 12 ft/lbs muzzle velocity I think should you be found wanting of this and you had an FAC as well you may risk losing it

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« Last Edit: 04. Feb 2011 at 10:18 by Guffer »

RIP Lisa, you will be missed Cry

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Desperate Den

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #42 - 04. Feb 2011 at 10:50

Guffer wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 10:14:

I have wondered that too Zulu Undecided

Also, even though an FAC is not required for an air weapon rated below 12 ft/lbs muzzle velocity I think should you be found wanting of this and you had an FAC as well you may risk losing it

Yes G, even though the prime legislation doesn't seem to prescribe how weapons are secured in these circumstances. (That I can find anyway)

Home Office advice, as interpreted and applied by the Chief Officer of any relevant constabulary (through local Firearms officers) appears to the operative factor when controlling the issue of certificates and control of weapons held by members of the public.

I would think it's a case of Entwood's common sense being the governing factor - sensibly, as individual circumstances will always vary.

And yes, should an unsecured air weapon fall into the hands of someone under the age of 18 (relevant to the op) or indeed any person (who used it in prohibited circumstances), then I would imagine that if the holder of that weapon held other weapons on a Firearm Certificate the local FO would certainly look at the holders suitability to continue holding weapons.

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« Last Edit: 04. Feb 2011 at 13:01 by Desperate Den »

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scimmy_man Intermediate Member Offline Posts: 395 yorkshire Gender: Drives: mv6 scimitar A3 discovery	Re: new airgun law Reply #43 - 04. Feb 2011 at 12:47 try these links sorry for upsetting the bunny huggers. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/media-centre/press-releases/lock-and-key http://www.basc.org.uk/en/media/pressreleases.cfm/prid/AB98850A-190D-4275-A85D9C...
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Martin Imber

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Re: new airgun law
Reply #44 - 04. Feb 2011 at 15:22

tunnie wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:29:

Lazydocker wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:23:

tunnie wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 09:16:

Guffer wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 05:55:

geoffr70 wrote on 04. Feb 2011 at 01:18:

My blood pressure isn't rising. I'm superfit! So shall I take that as 'no, you can't justify killing innocent animals'?

I take it you're a vegetarian then? Ever been to an abatoir?

Indeed, whats the difference between shooting a cow with a gun (would never see it coming)

Or electrocuting it in an abatoir, with them all lined up in a queue?

I could do with an air-gun actually, take out the pigeons on the roof opposite

You'd have issues though as you would be breaking the law on several counts Wink

I did some checking, I need the permission of the landlord in which the building/house the pigeons are.

There is a notice in my flat lobby saying not to feed them, as they are pests/rodents. I suspect it would be easy to get approval to shoot them

Pigeons don't have teeth Tunnie

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