Omega Owners Forum - A V referendum

Banjax Omega Lord Offline We're just a virus with shoes Posts: 5591 Perth Gender: Drives: '04 Subaru Legacy Sport, '03 406 diesel	Re: A V referendum Reply #15 - 03. Apr 2011 at 15:23 mkirky wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 15:19: Census has nothing to do with voting i though you would know that as you seem to think you know everything else and some of us atually do the fighting not just sit on our arse bitching about it bitching about what exactly? you say we dont live in a democracy - explain please
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mkirky Intermediate Member Offline Posts: 283 Cheshire Gender: Drives: 3.0 Elite Estate	Re: A V referendum Reply #16 - 03. Apr 2011 at 15:25 Oh come on you cannot be that nieve
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MICHELINMAN BANNED Offline YABBA-DABBA-DOO Posts: 369 Gender: Drives: 3.2 ELITE,BMW528SE	Re: A V referendum Reply #17 - 03. Apr 2011 at 15:27 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy
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bigegg

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Re: A V referendum
Reply #18 - 03. Apr 2011 at 16:22

Banjax wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 15:23:

you say we dont live in a democracy - explain please Wink

Technically we live in a republic - we vote for representatives who then vote on our behalf for or against legislation.

If we lived in a true democracy, EVERY law would need to pass a referendum before being added to the statute books.

Not a bad thing IMO, and reasonably easy to do with modern technology.

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mkirky Intermediate Member Offline Posts: 283 Cheshire Gender: Drives: 3.0 Elite Estate	Re: A V referendum Reply #19 - 03. Apr 2011 at 16:25 correct
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Desperate Den

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Re: A V referendum
Reply #20 - 03. Apr 2011 at 17:12

In my view AV/PR will lead to insipid government where everyone and their granny will have their own view of what legislation should be formed and have the power to enforce it.

This invariably results in horse trading between the smaller groups (who will have a level of power far beyond their remit) and the larger parties dependent on their support to remain in government.

Taking the system used in Northern Ireland (a bastardised form of PR) there is little to recommend it.

There's been too much blanking about in this country trying to embrace every opinion known to man in an attempt to comply with the latest trend for 'inclusiveness' It's about time that politicians started to govern and stopped blanking about with trendy ideas or Machiavellian desires to cement their position in government at all costs.

There is no substitute for strong, capable majority government.

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« Last Edit: 03. Apr 2011 at 17:12 by Desperate Den »

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Banjax

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Re: A V referendum
Reply #21 - 03. Apr 2011 at 19:15

bigegg wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 16:22:

Banjax wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 15:23:

you say we dont live in a democracy - explain please Wink

Technically we live in a republic - we vote for representatives who then vote on our behalf for or against legislation.

If we lived in a true democracy, EVERY law would need to pass a referendum before being added to the statute books.

Not a bad thing IMO, and reasonably easy to do with modern technology.

we vote for representatives to pass laws on our behalf, if every law and regulation needed a referendum we'd never get anywhere, if you think those we've voted for arent doing what they said or making a pigs ear of it we have the oppurtunity to vote for anyone whos standing.

the only non democratic process is our membership of the EU, but even there if most people felt that strongly they could sweep an anti europe party like UKIP into power - so yes, unlike a lot of places in the world we do have democracy Wink

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mkirky Intermediate Member Offline Posts: 283 Cheshire Gender: Drives: 3.0 Elite Estate	Re: A V referendum Reply #22 - 03. Apr 2011 at 22:07 I think in your mind its a democracy but alot of other people disagree ,we are all allowed our opinion and if you belive what you say you would have to agree
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bigegg

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Re: A V referendum
Reply #23 - 03. Apr 2011 at 22:34

I think it was Churchill who said that our system is the worst possible type of government.
except for all the others.
Personally, I think that Heinlein had a couple of good ideas:
Don't pass any law without a 2/3 majority
Repeal any law with a 1/3 majority.
Only allow people who have done a (voluntary) 2 year national service to vote. (or hold office).

I also, personally, think that we should have more segregation between the legislature (who make the laws), and the government (who run the country).

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bigegg

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Re: A V referendum
Reply #24 - 03. Apr 2011 at 22:37

Banjax wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 19:15:

bigegg wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 16:22:

Banjax wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 15:23:

you say we dont live in a democracy - explain please Wink

Technically we live in a republic - we vote for representatives who then vote on our behalf for or against legislation.

If we lived in a true democracy, EVERY law would need to pass a referendum before being added to the statute books.

Not a bad thing IMO, and reasonably easy to do with modern technology.

we vote for representatives to pass laws on our behalf, if every law and regulation needed a referendum we'd never get anywhere, if you think those we've voted for arent doing what they said or making a pigs ear of it we have the oppurtunity to vote for anyone whos standing.

the only non democratic process is our membership of the EU, but even there if most people felt that strongly they could sweep an anti europe party like UKIP into power - so yes, unlike a lot of places in the world we do have democracy Wink

agree in general BJ
but in response to the highlighted bit,
Hobson's Choice (or Ford's)
"You can have any colour you like. As long as it's black"
Doesn't matter who we vote for, it's always the government who gets in.

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Desperate Den Omega King Offline Posts: 11881	Re: A V referendum Reply #25 - 03. Apr 2011 at 23:12 bigegg wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 22:34: I also, personally, think that we should have more segregation between the legislature (who make the laws), and the government (who run the country). Interesting, would you expand on that a bit Egg?
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Nickbat

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Re: A V referendum
Reply #26 - 03. Apr 2011 at 23:23

Desperate Den wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 23:12:

bigegg wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 22:34:

I also, personally, think that we should have more segregation between the legislature (who make the laws), and the government (who run the country).

Interesting, would you expand on that a bit Egg?

Hmm! A large Egg.

I bought a dozen at Tesco today.

Sorry, Den. Been a long day. I know you'll forgive me. Wink

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Albs Omega King Offline The upgrades are ongoing. Posts: 15083 North Essex Gender: Drives: 2000 2.5CD with LPG/Honda cbr600 FX	Re: A V referendum Reply #27 - 03. Apr 2011 at 23:29 There are some interesting comments here by politicians who have in thenot too distant past condemned AV, but true to form are now telling us they believe it to be the future of British democracy.Not a belief or principle among them. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371147/Hypocricy-Alternative-Vote-backe...
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Desperate Den

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Re: A V referendum
Reply #28 - 03. Apr 2011 at 23:33

Albs wrote on 03. Apr 2011 at 23:29:

There are some interesting comments here by politicians who have in thenot too distant past condemned AV, but true to form are now telling us they believe it to be the future of British democracy.Not a belief or principle among them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371147/Hypocricy-Alternative-Vote-backe...

As soon as I saw Huhne's fizzog, that did for me. Smiley

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bigegg

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Re: A V referendum
Reply #29 - 03. Apr 2011 at 23:36

At the moment, we have one bloke who picks a team to manage each department of the government - the cabinet.
He's also the same bloke who (by wielding the "whip") decides what new laws are passed through parliament.
So he controls EVERYTHING, and can pass laws to make sure it stays that way.

why not say that the prime minister and cabinet cannot have any say in parliament about which laws are enacted.

There would have to be some things where the cabinet and parliament would need to interact - whose decision would it be to go to war?

but, ideally the prime minister and cabinet should be forced to work within laws which parliament set, and NOT be able to change laws to suit themselves.

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