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EGR valve on 2,5V6 (Read 2998 times)
Kevin Wood
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #15 - 31. Aug 2011 at 11:16
 
A code 31 just means the engine is stopped. It doesn't indicate an error (19 is what indicates a failed crank sensor).

Can you see live data on your code reader?

If so, let it warm up fully and you can verify that the engine coolant temperature reading is plausible without changing any more parts.

While you're there, have a look at the MAF sensor output (typically around 12kg/h at hot idle) and make sure that Lambda control for both banks has entered closed loop and both integrators are around the mid-point (127).

Have a look to ensure all the other readings are plausible. If possible post up the complete set and we'll see if anything looks odd.
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Sehen
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #16 - 31. Aug 2011 at 12:59
 


check the alternator pulley..

although I still think you may have problem with a cylinder or 2 (may be ignition related)  you can swap some sensors with the other miggy.. [/quote]

What about the alternator pulley?
And yes, i think there is something with the ignition.
But is there a possibility that it can missfire only at idle and low rpm's, and at one sylinder only?
I thoght that the DIS pack had the coils in pairs, so it would cut 2sylinders at once, like the last DIS that failed on me...
Or is there a chance that it only runs on 5 syl. on idle, then missefires on another one, causing the shaking.

And I wont touch the DIS pack on my sons car, it have never been changed, so if I take it out from the car, it will certanly dissintegrate in my hands Grin
As I said earlyer in my post, i will order the new improved tempsensor, as it is a cheap thing, and then try to change the DIS pack
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Sehen
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #17 - 31. Aug 2011 at 13:06
 
Kevin Wood wrote on 31. Aug 2011 at 11:16:
A code 31 just means the engine is stopped. It doesn't indicate an error (19 is what indicates a failed crank sensor).

Can you see live data on your code reader?

If so, let it warm up fully and you can verify that the engine coolant temperature reading is plausible without changing any more parts.

While you're there, have a look at the MAF sensor output (typically around 12kg/h at hot idle) and make sure that Lambda control for both banks has entered closed loop and both integrators are around the mid-point (127).

Have a look to ensure all the other readings are plausible. If possible post up the complete set and we'll see if anything looks odd.


I have the live data function, and will write the readings down and post them here. But i know that they are not the same, one bank is about 10 of, iirc. But i will post them later on Smiley
Thanks for answering  Thumbs Up!
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #18 - 31. Aug 2011 at 21:43
 
Ok! Here are the numbers :9
Fault code 15, colant temp. volt high, not present....

Ma f0,73-0,80 Whenidle fine, 0,75

Colant temp 1,13v 84deg.C

Intake temp 3,68V  16deg.C

Spark Angle 2-4 degres when fine, and 0-10 when engine shaking.

EGR at idle 0,62V Inactive

O2 sensor bank 1 117mV when fine, up to 800 when shaking..
Bank 2 the same...

O2 loop closed at both banks.

A/F both banks, changes from lean to rich...

Integrator bank 1 124 steps
Integrator bank 2 111 steps

Block 1 learn Map 166
nr 2                   64.....? What does that mean? The ECU is the same as the old engine who did have a leaking piston on bank 2...

IAC Integrator   128 steps
IAC Integrator slope 140 steps
IAC      150 steps
IAC Learn   132 steps

Desired Idle air 11
Actual Idle air  11-12 KG/h

Inj Pulse 3,4 to 3,5mS
Load 1,2

TPS 0%


Iterresting to see what you find out of these numbers.. Thumbs Up!







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cem
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #19 - 31. Aug 2011 at 23:17
 
Sehen wrote on 31. Aug 2011 at 21:43:
Ok! Here are the numbers :9
Fault code 15, colant temp. volt high, not present....

Ma f0,73-0,80 Whenidle fine, 0,75

Colant temp 1,13v 84deg.C

Intake temp 3,68V  16deg.C

Spark Angle 2-4 degres when fine, and 0-10 when engine shaking.EGR at idle 0,62V Inactive

O2 sensor bank 1 117mV when fine, up to 800 when shaking..
Bank 2 the same...

O2 loop closed at both banks.

A/F both banks, changes from lean to rich...

Integrator bank 1 124 steps
Integrator bank 2 111 steps

Block 1 learn Map 166
nr 2                   64.....? What does that mean? The ECU is the same as the old engine who did have a leaking piston on bank 2...

IAC Integrator   128 steps
IAC Integrator slope 140 steps
IAC      150 steps
IAC Learn   132 steps

Desired Idle air 11
Actual Idle air  11-12 KG/h

Inj Pulse 3,4 to 3,5mS
Load 1,2

TPS 0%


Iterresting to see what you find out of these numbers.. Thumbs Up!









for some reason your engine is retarding ignition..

so it must have a knock..

initial guess, either timing incorrect or problem on some valves or faulty coil Undecided
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #20 - 31. Aug 2011 at 23:26
 
or possibly a faulty/loose knock sensor ???
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Sehen
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #21 - 01. Sep 2011 at 20:39
 
cem wrote on 31. Aug 2011 at 23:17:
Sehen wrote on 31. Aug 2011 at 21:43:
Ok! Here are the numbers :9
Fault code 15, colant temp. volt high, not present....

Ma f0,73-0,80 Whenidle fine, 0,75

Colant temp 1,13v 84deg.C

Intake temp 3,68V  16deg.C

Spark Angle 2-4 degres when fine, and 0-10 when engine shaking.EGR at idle 0,62V Inactive

O2 sensor bank 1 117mV when fine, up to 800 when shaking..
Bank 2 the same...

O2 loop closed at both banks.

A/F both banks, changes from lean to rich...

Integrator bank 1 124 steps
Integrator bank 2 111 steps

Block 1 learn Map 166
nr 2                   64.....? What does that mean? The ECU is the same as the old engine who did have a leaking piston on bank 2...

IAC Integrator   128 steps
IAC Integrator slope 140 steps
IAC      150 steps
IAC Learn   132 steps

Desired Idle air 11
Actual Idle air  11-12 KG/h

Inj Pulse 3,4 to 3,5mS
Load 1,2

TPS 0%


Iterresting to see what you find out of these numbers.. Thumbs Up!









for some reason your engine is retarding ignition..

so it must have a knock..

initial guess, either timing incorrect or problem on some valves or faulty coil Undecided


Knock sensors inactive, forgot to wrigth that  down Undecided
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Sehen
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #22 - 08. Sep 2011 at 23:53
 
Today, my problem got a little worse.... When we loaded up the old Omega on the trailer, we could hear my car shaking, or missfiering somethimes. But when i picked it up late this night, when cold, i started it up, and the engine shaked violently, and the tacho did jump between 0 and 2000rpm's when this happend.
I havent read out the fault codes yet, but there was no engine light.
Is it my ECU who's saying goodby to me, or what?
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cem
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #23 - 09. Sep 2011 at 10:17
 
Sehen wrote on 08. Sep 2011 at 23:53:
Today, my problem got a little worse.... When we loaded up the old Omega on the trailer, we could hear my car shaking, or missfiering somethimes. But when i picked it up late this night, when cold, i started it up, and the engine shaked violently, and the tacho did jump between 0 and 2000rpm's when this happend.
I havent read out the fault codes yet, but there was no engine light.
Is it my ECU who's saying goodby to me, or what?


ECU's dont fail frequently.. there is a solenoid behind the air pipes (which causes the idle jump up down) .. and also check the air cable connections..

ps: misfiring tells me that you have a combined problem..

...

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« Last Edit: 09. Sep 2011 at 10:21 by cem »  
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v6man54deg              Geffd
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #24 - 09. Sep 2011 at 14:25
 
They where renown for air leaks - either from the 6 O ring seals under the plenum - or the seals on the plastic adaptor for the breather system - there's two O rings on this part that go into the throttle body - and one large seal where the plastic part goes into the inlet plenum - usually if you spray carb cleaner around these parts the rpm with change if they are leaking.

If nothing can be found check with a vacuum gauge at idle
o2 sensors should bounce between rich & lean constantly
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Kevin Wood
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #25 - 09. Sep 2011 at 14:51
 
Right, the ignition timing is varied by the ECU to stabilise idle speed, so I'm not surprised that it's all over the place when the engine is misfiring. It's the ECU trying to compensate for the idle speed varying. It won't be knock sensor input, because they'll be inactive at idle anyway.

Everything else looks reasonable in the live data. Integrator slightly out on one bank, as you say, but I've seen worse.

Does the coolant temperature in the live data change when it starts misfiring? The fault code you have suggests that perhaps the wiring to the coolant temperature sensor has been intermittent. It may be nothing but, if the coolant temperature takes a dive due to a poor connection, the ECU could be enrichening the mixture leading to a misfire.

The other thing that strikes me as odd is that the rev counter is affected by the misfire. When the crank sensor was changed, was a genuine GM one used or a pattern part? It might be worth making sure the wiring to the crank sensor is routed well away from both the hot exhaust manifold and the coil pack and HT leads (route it up the inner wing and across to the cable tray on the 2,4,6 cam cover).

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Sehen
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Re: EGR valve on 2,5V6
Reply #26 - 09. Sep 2011 at 23:14
 
The crank sensor is not a gm part... could it be so easy??
I'm goint to order it from the Uk, Vauxhall world... anyone heard about them? 1/3 of the price in Norway......
I have to change the cam cover gasket on the left bank also, so, is there any chance that the o-rings on the injektors are bad?
Thinking about changing all the gaskets and o-rings on the intake when it's of anyway.
About the tempsensor, havent seen any changes in live data, but maybe the refresh rate on my diagnostics isn't fast enough. When I have the plenum of, i check the sensor.
And no, the breather system works fine, and everything is open Wink So it is the camcover gasket.

So thanks for the input folks, and i will order a genuine gm crank sensor and gaskets. And then i will se what happens. Stay tuned  Thumbs Up!
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