Omega Owners Forum - 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG

Kevin Wood

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #15 - 28. Aug 2011 at 14:35

BigCat wrote on 27. Aug 2011 at 21:31:

Yes, I can see what you're saying and it sounds quite reasonable. When I had the LPG installed, they did ask me whether I wanted it set up for power or economy...

This rings alarm bells. Roll Eyes

There's only one way to set up an LPG system. The correct way. Wink

If they have tried to set it up lean, it will trim the mixture back and this could well be what is causing a problem.

You really need the software to talk to the LPG ECU to try and set it up better but a chat with a Tech 2 or other code reader capable of live data will confirm if the fuel trims are going awry.

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TheBoy

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #16 - 28. Aug 2011 at 20:05

Possibly not much help as the OPs EML is on anyway with Cat codes, but it would appear that, on a 3.2, a code gets stored (thus pedal trick or code reader will display this) in the ECU when Long Term Trims go up to 20%, BUT do not actually bring on the EML until 25%.

See, GayBoyGixer, I did learn something today, no matter what gormless state my friggin mind was in Grin

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BigCat

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #17 - 30. Aug 2011 at 01:50

Quote:

...but it would appear that, on a 3.2, a code gets stored (thus pedal trick or code reader will display this) in the ECU when Long Term Trims go up to 20%, BUT do not actually bring on the EML until 25%.

Yes, I would agree with something like that. The EML hasn't come on permanently since the last reset, until this morning.

(I'm working night shift at the moment hence the starnge timing of my posts.) I drove home this morning and had a very rough drive, the engine was misfiring all the way on both LPG and petrol and nearly stalled a few times, towards the end (15-20 min drive) the EML started flashing and then came on permanently.

I disconnected the battery and re-connected it tonight. EML is reset and a much smoother run in. Off-idle performance is a bit rough, but runs smooth and idles reasonably.

UPDATE:I just performed a pedal chack and got the following codes:

0300    Random/multiple cylinder misfire detected
0302    Cylinder 2 Misfire Detected
0304    Cylinder 4 Misfire Detected
0173    Fuel trim malfunction (Bank 2)
0173    Fuel trim malfunction (Bank 2)

No, those last two are not a misstype, I checked it three times, it definately gave two lots of 173, although I realise why I'd had so much difficulty before; The third flash on the first 173 code is very brief and not the same timing as the other two.

.

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« Last Edit: 30. Aug 2011 at 02:26 by BigCat »

The first 90% of a job takes 90% of the time, the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time.

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BigCat

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #18 - 30. Aug 2011 at 01:59

Quote:

...but a chat with a Tech 2 or other code reader capable of live data will confirm if the fuel trims are going awry.

I bough a couple of code readers a few years ago, including a EBDII one which cost me a few hundred quid, but it wouldn't talk to my car. I sent it back to the distributor who checked it out and sent it back saying there was nothing wrong with it. I lent it to a colleague who said it worked fine for him.

I'll have to ask him for it back and have another go...

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Lazydocker

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #19 - 30. Aug 2011 at 10:13

BigCat wrote on 30. Aug 2011 at 01:59:

Quote:

...but a chat with a Tech 2 or other code reader capable of live data will confirm if the fuel trims are going awry.

I bough a couple of code readers a few years ago, including a EBDII one which cost me a few hundred quid, but it wouldn't talk to my car. I sent it back to the distributor who checked it out and sent it back saying there was nothing wrong with it. I lent it to a colleague who said it worked fine for him.

I'll have to ask him for it back and have another go...

Don't bother... The Omega isn't EOBD2 compliant Wink

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Whatever it is... I didn't do it

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chrisgixer

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #20 - 30. Aug 2011 at 10:16

chrisgixer wrote on 27. Aug 2011 at 22:24:

I think your LPG installer is either being lazy, or know full well the kit has an issue they can't be arsed to sort out. If driving reservedly a slightly lean mixture will bo covered no problem.

Something is amiss. Certainly. It needs checking and mapping correctly so the lambdas never go lean, but so it's not rich either. LPG injector nozzles may very well need re sizing.

There are cheap code readers capable if code reading and live data. Most basic function of which is lambda readings/fuel trims.

But once again...WHAT KIT IS IT?

?

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Lazydocker Omega King Offline Victim of Pinky's Power Trip! Posts: 11336 Woodbridge, Suffolk Gender: Drives: 2003 3.2 Elite Estate LPG Converted, inspected and Certified	Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG Reply #21 - 30. Aug 2011 at 10:21 Indeed... One more time! What kit is it?
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Kevin Wood

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #22 - 30. Aug 2011 at 10:40

Lazydocker wrote on 30. Aug 2011 at 10:13:

Don't bother... The Omega isn't EOBD2 compliant Wink

A 3.2 should be. Wink

But.. handheld code readers are often pretty poor IME.

Cheapest way is probably to buy a generic ELM327 diag. cable on Ebay and then install one of the freebie applications that do code reading and live data - if you have a laptop. Worked nicely for me. Thumbs Up!

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Lazydocker

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #23 - 30. Aug 2011 at 13:26

Kevin Wood wrote on 30. Aug 2011 at 10:40:

Lazydocker wrote on 30. Aug 2011 at 10:13:

Don't bother... The Omega isn't EOBD2 compliant Wink

A 3.2 should be. Wink

But.. handheld code readers are often pretty poor IME.

Cheapest way is probably to buy a generic ELM327 diag. cable on Ebay and then install one of the freebie applications that do code reading and live data - if you have a laptop. Worked nicely for me. Thumbs Up!

good point Embarrassed

Although being ex plod I wonder if there's some butchered wiring stopping it working Undecided

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Kevin Wood Global Moderator Admin Team Offline Posts: 20377 Alton, Hampshire Gender: Drives: 3.2 MV6 (LPG), Westfield	Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG Reply #24 - 30. Aug 2011 at 16:04 Lazydocker wrote on 30. Aug 2011 at 13:26: Although being ex plod I wonder if there's some butchered wiring stopping it working Could even be one of the LPG kits that talks to the ECU using the OBDII wiring, but then I'd expect it to be working better in that case.
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BigCat

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #25 - 30. Aug 2011 at 23:25

The LPG kit is "Pick and Mix". All I know is when I had to have the multivalve replaced in Italy (it failed whilst I was away last year), I took it to a few places and they all commented that the tank and multivalve were BRC and the ECU wasn't!

I understand that there are two major Italian brands, and that the ECU is the other brand i.e. Not BRC. Any ideas where to look?

Code Scanner: The 3.2 is apparently OBD II AND CAN BUS II compliant, and that's what model of reader I bought from these guys: http://www.opel-scanner.com/. It is supposed to give me all sorts of info via laptop, including fuel trims. See here http://www.opel-scanner.com/index.php?pid=7

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The first 90% of a job takes 90% of the time, the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time.

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Kevin Wood Global Moderator Admin Team Offline Posts: 20377 Alton, Hampshire Gender: Drives: 3.2 MV6 (LPG), Westfield	Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG Reply #26 - 30. Aug 2011 at 23:54 The 3.2 doesn't support CAN diagnostics but does support the older OBDII protocols. That device says it can support all Omegas, though, so it must also support the earlier pre-OBDII protocols.
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Lazydocker Omega King Offline Victim of Pinky's Power Trip! Posts: 11336 Woodbridge, Suffolk Gender: Drives: 2003 3.2 Elite Estate LPG Converted, inspected and Certified	Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG Reply #27 - 31. Aug 2011 at 12:56 Have a look around for the ecu (Probably easiest to follow some of the injector wiring back to it) and hopefully there'll be a sticker on it with the make. If we can get software then one of us with some LPG experience may be able to help out
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BigCat

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Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG
Reply #28 - 02. Sep 2011 at 09:08

Quote:

There are cheap code readers capable if code reading and live data. Most basic function of which is lambda readings/fuel trims.

But once again...WHAT KIT IS IT?

I have borrowed a simple code reader, but I don't think I'm going to get my comprehensive one back. Can you point me in right direction for an inexpensive reader that will also do fuel trims?

BTW codes today are:

300, 302, 306 (always the same two cylinders)
725 Is this something to do with gearbox?
156 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage/Slow Response/No Activity/malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 2)
150 O2 Sensor Circuit High Voltage/Slow Response/No Activity/malfunction (Bank 2 Sensor 1)

As for the kit, well I can't get to the ECU, but the injectors are OMVL (and the tank is BRC). It has a MAP sensor, but I guess both OMVL and BRC use those. The only other thing I can note is that the wiring harness seems to match the injectors well, so quite likely its OMVL.

(BTW:Note to any Admins reading this, I'm still not getting e-mail notifications)

OMVL Injectors

Engine Bay

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The first 90% of a job takes 90% of the time, the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time.

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chrisgixer Omega King Offline Black ones are faster. Posts: 14570 Wokingham Gender: Drives: "Omega Black" 3.2 Elite. Thanks to Joshwyatt.	Re: 3.2 V6 hard to start on LPG Reply #29 - 02. Sep 2011 at 20:54 If it's a BRC system we're buggered. They don't allow fiddling with their software as it needs a dongle to alter the parameters which they don't sell to Joe public. Can you see any makers name on the ecu?
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