Omega Owners Forum - 3.0L Cams

Markjay Omega Lord Offline Posts: 5452 London Gender:	Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications Reply #30 - 18. Apr 2007 at 00:33 Valve Lifters (24): X25XE & X30XE to engine number 08159068 - P/N 9117905 (old P/N - 90 511 241) X25XE & X30XE from engine number 08159069 - P/N 9117904 (old P/N - 90 542 783) Y26SE & Y32SE all models - P/N 93 174 076 (old P/N - 9117904) From EPC.
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Markjay Omega Lord Offline Posts: 5452 London Gender:	Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications Reply #31 - 18. Apr 2007 at 00:45
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omegav6cd

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
Reply #32 - 18. Apr 2007 at 00:48

ClarCE wrote on 18. Apr 2007 at 00:00:

omegaV6CD wrote on 17. Apr 2007 at 21:11:

ClarCE wrote on 17. Apr 2007 at 15:32:

All sounds good, already smiling more Cheesy

No worries Tunnie, I do it all the time Tongue

Would you worry about the lifters then as Omegav6cd suggests Mark? I didn't really want to be pulling the head to peices to be honest..

It is a fundamental rule that when you change cams you change lifters the reason being that when an engine has run for long time the lifter and the cam have settled to match one another while wearing in. Now if you introduce new cams to old lifters then this process of bedding in will re-occur With the danger of affecting the radius of the lifter(lifters are not flat) and preent them from rotating as they supposed to. if this happens the wear will be accelerated. This is the reason why serious engine manufacturers alwasy Kit these parts together as s[are parts. This is the technical reason, but apart from that it is a damn good idea to do it while at it because at 107k miles you don't know when a lifter will decide to go making your nice engine sound like a flamengo players clapping.

Hmmm

Based on that advice then, if I've got cams that have been used for star ship mileage, is it going to hurt them using new lifters? Over the lifters that they would have originally worn with?

And - sets of 32??! Looks like I'll be saving for a bit before I put these in, the last thing I want to do is ruin the engine.

To answer you question the lifters are the ones that get hurt the cams are usually harder.
If you want to do the job properly fit new lifters. Trust the professional's advice and you won't loose.
DO NOT FORGET to prelubricate everything with assembly lub.

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JamesV6CDX

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Drives: 2002 (02) 3.2 Retail MV6 in Star Silver with Leather

Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
Reply #33 - 18. Apr 2007 at 18:20

Not arguing for one min about the best practice - I agree this would be to replace the lifters.

It's all very well listinging to the professionals, but is the advise of the professionals always worthwhile, when it involves spending more on a few components than the market value of the car?

If they are £8 each, that makes it £192 just for new lifters

Is it really economical?

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omegav6cd

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
Reply #34 - 18. Apr 2007 at 18:54

JamesV6CDX wrote on 18. Apr 2007 at 18:20:

Not arguing for one min about the best practice - I agree this would be to replace the lifters.

It's all very well listinging to the professionals, but is the advise of the professionals always worthwhile, when it involves spending more on a few components than the market value of the car?

If they are £8 each, that makes it £192 just for new lifters

Is it really economical?

Well it depends the way you look at it. When i had my omega i spend 2500pounds on it to have it in the condition i wanted which was very uneconomical but again my reward was 30000faultless miles and 2 Summer round trips to Greece without a single issue and very illegal speeds.
my view is that owning an omega can forgive any expense spent when you think of the depreciation that new cars suffer. Don't get me wrong the old lifters can run perhaps another 100000 miles if you are lucky but i would really be pissed off if a year after all that effort and money spent a lifter decides to fail. I would sacrifice a few nights out for the lifters.

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ClarCE

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
Reply #35 - 18. Apr 2007 at 21:46

So if the lifter fails, what does this cause to happen? By Failing you mean breaking up? Or the spring breaks and I have to take it to bits to chuck new ones in?

It is a question of making economic sense for me really - i.e does it make economical sense to replace them all now, or will it cost me more in the long run if I leave it...

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JamesV6CDX Ex Member Gender: Drives: 2002 (02) 3.2 Retail MV6 in Star Silver with Leather	Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications Reply #36 - 18. Apr 2007 at 22:01 In best practice terms, you should change them all. My PERSONAL OPINION is that, in economic terms, you don't need to change them, if they are all good and quiet. I've seen plenty of sucesfull cam changes with the lifters staying in place.
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JamesV6CDX Ex Member Gender: Drives: 2002 (02) 3.2 Retail MV6 in Star Silver with Leather	Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications Reply #37 - 18. Apr 2007 at 22:02 Worst case secnario = cams out again to change lifters... If a lifter fails.. it won't cause any internal damage, apart from a lot of noise
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ClarCE Senior Member Offline Cam Covers x 5 Posts: 791 Newbury, Berks Gender: Drives: Omega 2.5-V6 '98	Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications Reply #38 - 19. Apr 2007 at 08:48 JamesV6CDX wrote on 18. Apr 2007 at 22:02: Worst case secnario = cams out again to change lifters... If a lifter fails.. it won't cause any internal damage, apart from a lot of noise Cheers James - this is what I had hoped - full speed ahead on the cam change
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Phil Senior Member Offline Posts: 697	Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications Reply #39 - 19. Apr 2007 at 12:38 Don't forget the ST200 ONLY had the INLET cams from the X30XE engine, so in theory you only need to change 2 cams and 12 lifters, saving some money and still keeping piece of mind??
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ClarCE

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
Reply #40 - 19. Apr 2007 at 12:45

Phil wrote on 19. Apr 2007 at 12:38:

Don't forget the ST200 ONLY had the INLET cams from the X30XE engine, so in theory you only need to change 2 cams and 12 lifters, saving some money and still keeping piece of mind??

That doesn't sound right to me - my engines X25XE I think what you're saying was the case on the older C25XE - whats the ST200? Sounds like a Mondeo Wink

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Phil

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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
Reply #41 - 19. Apr 2007 at 13:40

ClarCE wrote on 19. Apr 2007 at 12:45:

That doesn't sound right to me - my engines X25XE I think what you're saying was the case on the older C25XE - whats the ST200? Sounds like a Mondeo Wink

ST200 is the Vectra Super Touring 200, the V6 engined touring car road going replica, commonly mistaken for the GSi which it pre-dates or the SRi on which it was based.

Basically only 38 saloons were made numbered 1-37 and no 50, most were white, one was red and one or two IIRC where black, there was also a one off estate no 0000, in ~~pale blue~~ Arctic Blue. There was NEVER a hatchback version

basically:-

"Swindon race engineering carried out the work on the V6, they tried different cam and ecu set ups but found the MV6 inlet cam was so close to what they needed, they used that instead. The ECU was not changed due to cost reliability and strict emission controls

The pre sales pack, which was written before the car was launched, said it had ecu upgrade and would come with 6 speed box, this was not the case, it also said it would come with 325mm grooved discs but plain 330mm were fitted instead

Full spec over and above the SRi( GSi wasnt available at the time):-
Speedline Mistral 7.5J*17 alloys ET49 5 spoke with full size spare
Steinmetz side skirts
AP LSD
AP lower final drive - 4.45:1
AP road/ race 4 pot brakes with Goodridge braided hoses
X30XE inlet cams
Koni road/ race suspension package, 35mm drop
Recaro front seats with Eurosport motif, matching trim to rear seats and door cards"

And before anyone says, yes MSD did make the final limited run, but Swindon did the origional engine development as they were hevily involved in the BTCC engine development at the time.

The inlet cam upgrade ment the engine produced 200ps (approx 197bhp) hence the reason it was called the ST200.

This year is the 10th anniv. and they are having a big do at Billing.

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« Last Edit: 19. Apr 2007 at 13:53 by Phil »

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ClarCE

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Newbury, Berks
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Drives: Omega 2.5-V6 '98

Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
Reply #42 - 19. Apr 2007 at 13:50

Phil wrote on 19. Apr 2007 at 13:40:

ClarCE wrote on 19. Apr 2007 at 12:45:

That doesn't sound right to me - my engines X25XE I think what you're saying was the case on the older C25XE - whats the ST200? Sounds like a Mondeo Wink

ST200 is the Vectra Super Touring 200, the V6 engined touring car road going replica, commonly mistaken for the GSi which it pre-dates or the SRi on which it was based.

Basically only 38 saloons were made numbered 1-37 and no 50, most were white, one was red and one or two IIRC where black, there was also a one off estate no 0000, in pale blue. There was NEVER a hatchback version

basically:-

"Swindon race engineering carried out the work on the V6, they tried different cam and ecu set ups but found the MV6 inlet cam was so close to what they needed, they used that instead. The ECU was not changed due to cost reliability and strict emission controls

The pre sales pack, which was written before the car was launched, said it had ecu upgrade and would come with 6 speed box, this was not the case, it also said it would come with 325mm grooved discs but plain 330mm were fitted instead

Full spec over and above the SRi( GSi wasnt available at the time):-
Speedline Mistral 7.5J*17 alloys ET49 5 spoke with full size spare
Steinmetz side skirts
AP LSD
AP lower final drive - 4.45:1
AP road/ race 4 pot brakes with Goodridge braided hoses
X30XE inlet cams
Koni road/ race suspension package, 35mm drop
Recaro front seats with Eurosport motif, matching trim to rear seats and door cards"

And before anyone says, yes MSD did make the final limited run, but Swindon did the origional engine development as they were hevily involved in the BTCC engine development at the time.

The inlet cam upgrade ment the engine produced 200ps (approx 197bhp) hence the reason it was called the ST200.

This year is the 10th anniv. and they are having a big do at Billing.

Making more sense now - I was seriously under the impression that you have to change all 4 cams, and indeed thats what I'm now in possesion of - Marks DTM - any comments here?

It just got technical and went over my head Huh

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Kevin Wood Global Moderator Admin Team Offline Posts: 20377 Alton, Hampshire Gender: Drives: 3.2 MV6 (LPG), Westfield	Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications Reply #43 - 19. Apr 2007 at 14:18 Just realised my mate's got one of those Vectras. Didn't realise they made so few! Didn't Mark say further up the thread that in the early engines it was only the inlet cam that was different but later both were different? Kevin
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ClarCE

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Newbury, Berks
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Re: 3.0L Cams - Implications
Reply #44 - 19. Apr 2007 at 14:21

Kevin Wood wrote on 19. Apr 2007 at 14:18:

Just realised my mate's got one of those Vectras. Didn't realise they made so few!

Didn't Mark say further up the thread that in the early engines it was only the inlet cam that was different but later both were different?

Kevin

Yeah I thought he did - but on C25XE so not X25XE - maybe they put the C25XE into some early Vectras - although I thought the Vectra was launched after the Omega - then I don't know really either Huh

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