Omega Owners Forum - Running solely on LPG

JamesV6CDX

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Running solely on LPG - not petrol
11. Apr 2011 at 11:48

Been considering the possibility of running solely on LPG.

I was speaking to someone recently who fitted a device to their car's cooling system, so they just plug it in to the mains for a few minutes in the morning, and it's heated/circulated hot water around the engine.

This means the Vap would be instantly hot, so you could run on LPG immediately.

Any thoughts on if this is worthwhile, and what kit you could use?

Could you easily make something? Don't really want to fork out £200 for a kenlow device.

Ideas / discussion welcome Thumbs Up!

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Jimbob Global Moderator Admin Team Offline Third nipple removal completed succesfuly Posts: 20462 Chester / Flintshire Gender: Drives: 52 3.2 MV6 Estate & 98 3.0 MV6 Manual Estate	Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol Reply #1 - 11. Apr 2011 at 11:51 All well and good when leaving home.... But what about leaving work, anywhere but home in the middle of winter, when camping etc with no available mains power. I would say youve gotta have a standalone way of heating it up to accomplish this
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TheBoy

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #2 - 11. Apr 2011 at 11:53

Jimbob wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 11:51:

All well and good when leaving home....

But what about leaving work, anywhere but home in the middle of winter, when camping etc with no available mains power.

I would say youve gotta have a standalone way of heating it up to accomplish this

And needs to be able to heat the entire coolant up significantly to stop it going on richened mixture, which will mess up piggyback LPG ECUs.

Whats the issue with a spot of petrol now and again?

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tunnie Over Active Poster Offline Posts: 22520 London, W3 Gender: Drives: 2.2 CD (LPG'd) & BMW R1200 GS	Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol Reply #3 - 11. Apr 2011 at 11:54 can't personally see the point, can't see it saving any money. I've used about £20 of petrol in 6 months
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Kevin Wood

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #4 - 11. Apr 2011 at 12:19

TheBoy wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 11:53:

And needs to be able to heat the entire coolant up significantly to stop it going on richened mixture, which will mess up piggyback LPG ECUs.

Whats the issue with a spot of petrol now and again?

Yes, this is the main problem. A cool vapouriser isn't really an issue at all. As long as it is prevented from cooling well below freezing it will work OK, with reduced maximum vapour output. Circulating coolant will ensure this even if the coolant is cold. You can also get vapourisers with electric (12V) heaters built in that activate like glow plugs. As long as you don't rag it from cold it will probably work OK.

The big problem is that the warmup enrichments applied by the engine ECU are based on the assumption that it's running on petrol, which requires very different handling to LPG.

Other than fit a dedicated LPG ECU rather then a piggy-back device, the best you could do would probably be to fiddle the coolant temperature input to the petrol ECU so it thinks the engine is always warm. I have no idea how successful this would be, though.

Kevin

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cem

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #5 - 11. Apr 2011 at 12:29

although not the same engine, most of the times I forgot to switch to LPG on many winter nights with my ex car (carburetted system) and I discovered that it started better on LPG in the mornings Grin

ps: prophane boiling point -42 celcius
buthane -0.5 celcius
LPG firms change the mixture ratios in winter and summer times..

so up to -10 it wasnt a problem to start on LPG..

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« Last Edit: 11. Apr 2011 at 12:36 by cem »

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Kevin Wood

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #6 - 11. Apr 2011 at 13:35

cem wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 12:29:

although not the same engine, most of the times I forgot to switch to LPG on many winter nights with my ex car (carburetted system) and I discovered that it started better on LPG in the mornings Grin

ps: prophane boiling point -42 celcius
buthane -0.5 celcius
LPG firms change the mixture ratios in winter and summer times..

so up to -10 it wasnt a problem to start on LPG..

Yes, it's not easy for petrol to form a vapour when it's that cold, hence the enrichments required as most of it will just wet the manifold walls. LPG is already a vapour at > -40 so no problem there. You just need to keep providing some heat energy so it doesn't freeze up the vapouriser.

The winches at the gliding club are LPG only. Just a huge mixer on top of the big block chevy. Grin

No problem starting them in the winter although they idle a little grumpily until warm. This is a very basic setup with no choke, enrichments or anything. Just a gas leak into the air intake. Grin

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aaronjb

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #7 - 11. Apr 2011 at 14:08

Kevin Wood wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 13:35:

The winches at the gliding club are LPG only. Just a huge mixer on top of the big block chevy. Grin

No problem starting them in the winter although they idle a little grumpily until warm. This is a very basic setup with no choke, enrichments or anything. Just a gas leak into the air intake. Grin

Hmm interesting.. wonder where the IVA/SVA test sits with regard to LPG..

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Kevin Wood

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #8 - 11. Apr 2011 at 14:51

aaronjb wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 14:08:

Kevin Wood wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 13:35:

The winches at the gliding club are LPG only. Just a huge mixer on top of the big block chevy. Grin

No problem starting them in the winter although they idle a little grumpily until warm. This is a very basic setup with no choke, enrichments or anything. Just a gas leak into the air intake. Grin

Hmm interesting.. wonder where the IVA/SVA test sits with regard to LPG..

Not sure, TBH. Undecided

Can't recall if any limits for LPG are set in the IVA manual. Have a feeling it might just say visible smoke. Grin

Kevin

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aaronjb

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #9 - 11. Apr 2011 at 14:55

Kevin Wood wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 14:51:

aaronjb wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 14:08:

Kevin Wood wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 13:35:

The winches at the gliding club are LPG only. Just a huge mixer on top of the big block chevy. Grin

No problem starting them in the winter although they idle a little grumpily until warm. This is a very basic setup with no choke, enrichments or anything. Just a gas leak into the air intake. Grin

Hmm interesting.. wonder where the IVA/SVA test sits with regard to LPG..

Not sure, TBH. Undecided

Can't recall if any limits for LPG are set in the IVA manual. Have a feeling it might just say visible smoke. Grin

Kevin

Yeah, if I get the age of the engine verified (under the new IVA rules) then petrol, at least, would just be a visible smoke test (1967 engine)..

LPG would make the 8mpg sting a bit less Grin

but it would be a post-build change I reckon.

Still .. have to get the garage built first and the chassis ordered! I got all ahead of myself when you said 'big block' Wink

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Cliffo B

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #10 - 11. Apr 2011 at 19:20

I have had a Kenlowe engine pre-heater fitted for the past 6 yrs, as Ive already said I find it to be very good, I'm hopeing it will help speed up the petrol to lpg changeover when I finally get the lpg installed.Just about completed fitting the doenut tank in the spare wheel well, been a right pain sorting out a strong firm bolt on fix for the tank.

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TheBoy

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #11 - 11. Apr 2011 at 19:24

Cliffo B wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 19:20:

I have had a Kenlowe engine pre-heater fitted for the past 6 yrs, as Ive already said I find it to be very good, I'm hopeing it will help speed up the petrol to lpg changeover when I finally get the lpg installed.Just about completed fitting the doenut tank in the spare wheel well, been a right pain sorting out a strong firm bolt on fix for the tank.

Mine is set to 30C or 10s. No issue with that, in winter switches over within a mile, assuming I haven't left car defrosting on drive Roll Eyes

On hot days, probably needs these raising slightly - did you get a laptop cable?

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Lazydocker

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #12 - 11. Apr 2011 at 19:34

TheBoy wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 19:24:

Cliffo B wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 19:20:

I have had a Kenlowe engine pre-heater fitted for the past 6 yrs, as Ive already said I find it to be very good, I'm hopeing it will help speed up the petrol to lpg changeover when I finally get the lpg installed.Just about completed fitting the doenut tank in the spare wheel well, been a right pain sorting out a strong firm bolt on fix for the tank.

Mine is set to 30C or 10s. No issue with that, in winter switches over within a mile, assuming I haven't left car defrosting on drive Roll Eyes

On hot days, probably needs these raising slightly - did you get a laptop cable?

Good point... Can you edit the kit contents thread to remove the cable please, although I have added the info to the message I send out Thumbs Up!

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TheBoy

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Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol
Reply #13 - 11. Apr 2011 at 20:08

Lazydocker wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 19:34:

TheBoy wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 19:24:

Cliffo B wrote on 11. Apr 2011 at 19:20:

I have had a Kenlowe engine pre-heater fitted for the past 6 yrs, as Ive already said I find it to be very good, I'm hopeing it will help speed up the petrol to lpg changeover when I finally get the lpg installed.Just about completed fitting the doenut tank in the spare wheel well, been a right pain sorting out a strong firm bolt on fix for the tank.

Mine is set to 30C or 10s. No issue with that, in winter switches over within a mile, assuming I haven't left car defrosting on drive Roll Eyes

On hot days, probably needs these raising slightly - did you get a laptop cable?

Good point... Can you edit the kit contents thread to remove the cable please, although I have added the info to the message I send out Thumbs Up!

Thought I had? Where is the thread - used gto be in your sig...

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Cliffo B Omega Baron Offline Posts: 2754 Leeds West Yorkshire Gender: Drives: '03 elite 3.2 estate	Re: Running solely on LPG - not petrol Reply #14 - 11. Apr 2011 at 21:05 I did get the laptop cable and cd, you can borrow it with pleasure TB, rate I'm going on I'll not be wanting it for some time yet,just PM me the postal address and Ill get it off to you
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