Omega Owners Forum - DONE CAM BELT CHANGE

Bent valve Intermediate Member Offline Posts: 386 Drives: Omega 3Litre elite estate, Merc 190E	Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH! Reply #15 - 08. May 2011 at 21:46 Darth Loo-knee wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:43: Hope you have not got more than 2 teeth out else good night 24 valves I dont think it would be running if it had 24 bent valves
Back to top	IP Logged

TheBoy Administrator Offline TBE has an MOT! Posts: 64817 Brackley, Northants Gender: Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10	Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH! Reply #16 - 08. May 2011 at 21:47 Andy B wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:44: TheBoy wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:40: ... it simply cannot be done without it. .... It can be done, just not very accurately, and it's not easy to see the mark on the crank. No, it can't. Its luck if the tensioner is anywhere near correct.
Back to top	If you are going to kick a car, remember to wear appropriate footwear Any posts are the result of my own views as a member of OOF, which may or may not be the same as my views as part of the Admin Team. IP Logged

Darth Loo-knee

Court Jester

Offline

"If you only knew how
much he likes Backsides!"

Posts: 20248
Stoke-on-Trent
Gender: male

Drives: An Omega in the Pipeline.....

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #17 - 08. May 2011 at 21:48

DTC wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:44:

have I done any damage? I should have used the correct locking kit I know now- but for £65 for something i would use once seemed a lot of money to just leave on a shelf once used . Just had a new born and the cam kit and pump just cost me enough!

Ten times cheaper though if you have bent your valves Huh

How many times must it be said on this forum " you need to use a cam locking kit!"

Back to top

Breaking, Cambelts & Servicing, Repairs & Sales. Everything to do with Omega's..

IP Logged

TheBoy

Administrator

Offline

TBE has an MOT!

Posts: 64817
Brackley, Northants
Gender: male

Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #18 - 08. May 2011 at 21:49

Bent valve wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:46:

Darth Loo-knee wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:43:

Hope you have not got more than 2 teeth out else good night 24 valves Huh

I dont think it would be running if it had 24 bent valves Sad

Unlikely to have ruined all 24 - that would have to be a couple of teeth out on all 4 cams.

First port of call is to retime it using the correct timing kit.

Back to top

If you are going to kick a car, remember to wear appropriate footwear
Any posts are the result of my own views as a member of OOF, which may or may not be the same as my views as part of the Admin Team.

IP Logged

Andy B

Over Active Poster

Offline

Posts: 21988
Bury Lancs
Gender: male

Drives: 1999 3.0 Elite auto/TDM

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #19 - 08. May 2011 at 21:49

TheBoy wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:47:

Andy B wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:44:

TheBoy wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:40:

... it simply cannot be done without it. ....

It can be done, just not very accurately, and it's not easy to see the mark on the crank. Wink

No, it can't. Its luck if the tensioner is anywhere near correct.

bolox

. there have been plenty that have been done without, just not accurately.
What's the tensioner got to do with the timing? Huh

Back to top

IP Logged

Darth Loo-knee Court Jester Offline "If you only knew how much he likes Backsides!" Posts: 20248 Stoke-on-Trent Gender: Drives: An Omega in the Pipeline.....	Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH! Reply #20 - 08. May 2011 at 21:49 Bent valve wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:46: Darth Loo-knee wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:43: Hope you have not got more than 2 teeth out else good night 24 valves I dont think it would be running if it had 24 bent valves I have driven an Omega with bent valves for about 60 miles. .
Back to top	Breaking, Cambelts & Servicing, Repairs & Sales. Everything to do with Omega's.. IP Logged

TheBoy

Administrator

Offline

TBE has an MOT!

Posts: 64817
Brackley, Northants
Gender: male

Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #21 - 08. May 2011 at 21:56

Andy B wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:49:

TheBoy wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:47:

Andy B wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:44:

TheBoy wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:40:

... it simply cannot be done without it. ....

It can be done, just not very accurately, and it's not easy to see the mark on the crank. Wink

No, it can't. Its luck if the tensioner is anywhere near correct.

bolox

. there have been plenty that have been done without, just not accurately.
What's the tensioner got to do with the timing? Huh

The tensioner has absolutely everything to do with the timing. Thats why the tensioner has to specifically set at TDC Wink

If the tensioner is wrong, its easy for the rest of it to end up more than the critical 2 teeth out, esp if it was guessed in the first place (so potentially 1 or 2 teeth out to start with).

What we certainly dont need is people saying it can be done without the kit. It can't. Somebody telling DTC you can may potentially have caused him several hundred pounds of damage Angry

It cannot be done properly. It cannot be done accurate. It cannot be done safely.

Back to top

If you are going to kick a car, remember to wear appropriate footwear
Any posts are the result of my own views as a member of OOF, which may or may not be the same as my views as part of the Admin Team.

IP Logged

Bent valve

Intermediate Member

Offline

Posts: 386

Drives: Omega 3Litre elite estate, Merc 190E

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #22 - 08. May 2011 at 22:00

Darth Loo-knee wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:49:

Bent valve wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:46:

Darth Loo-knee wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:43:

Hope you have not got more than 2 teeth out else good night 24 valves Huh

I dont think it would be running if it had 24 bent valves Sad

I have driven an Omega with bent valves for about 60 miles. .

Not 24 bent valves though... surely?

Back to top

« Last Edit: 08. May 2011 at 22:01 by Bent valve »

IP Logged

TheBoy

Administrator

Offline

TBE has an MOT!

Posts: 64817
Brackley, Northants
Gender: male

Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #23 - 08. May 2011 at 22:02

Bent valve wrote on 08. May 2011 at 22:00:

Darth Loo-knee wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:49:

Bent valve wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:46:

Darth Loo-knee wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:43:

Hope you have not got more than 2 teeth out else good night 24 valves Huh

I dont think it would be running if it had 24 bent valves Sad

I have driven an Omega with bent valves for about 60 miles. .

Not 24 bent valves though...

Depends how bent I guess - might still get enough compression if they've just clipped...

Back to top

If you are going to kick a car, remember to wear appropriate footwear
Any posts are the result of my own views as a member of OOF, which may or may not be the same as my views as part of the Admin Team.

IP Logged

Darth Loo-knee

Court Jester

Offline

"If you only knew how
much he likes Backsides!"

Posts: 20248
Stoke-on-Trent
Gender: male

Drives: An Omega in the Pipeline.....

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #24 - 08. May 2011 at 22:06

Bent valve wrote on 08. May 2011 at 22:00:

Darth Loo-knee wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:49:

Bent valve wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:46:

Darth Loo-knee wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:43:

Hope you have not got more than 2 teeth out else good night 24 valves Huh

I dont think it would be running if it had 24 bent valves Sad

I have driven an Omega with bent valves for about 60 miles. .

Not 24 bent valves though... surely?

Perhaps not 24. . . But the Cambelt had broken and it was running on 3 cylinders. . That means half of the valves were bent. . Wink

Back to top

Breaking, Cambelts & Servicing, Repairs & Sales. Everything to do with Omega's..

IP Logged

Andy B

Over Active Poster

Offline

Posts: 21988
Bury Lancs
Gender: male

Drives: 1999 3.0 Elite auto/TDM

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #25 - 08. May 2011 at 22:11

TheBoy wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:56:

.....
The tensioner has absolutely everything to do with the timing. Thats why the tensioner has to specifically set at TDC Wink

.....

You're wrong. Huh

You can get the belt on correctly & not get the tensioner set right, conversely everything could be a mile out but have the tensioner set correctly. The tensioner is doing just that, holding the slack side of the cam belt run.
The tensioner has sod all to do with the accuracy of the timing.

How are you checking for top dead centre, the car doesn't have makings for it.

Back to top

« Last Edit: 08. May 2011 at 22:12 by Andy B »

IP Logged

TheBoy

Administrator

Offline

TBE has an MOT!

Posts: 64817
Brackley, Northants
Gender: male

Drives: 98 MV6, 03 Elite, 00 25, 89 ZX10

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #26 - 08. May 2011 at 22:14

Andy B wrote on 08. May 2011 at 22:11:

TheBoy wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:56:

.....
The tensioner has absolutely everything to do with the timing. Thats why the tensioner has to specifically set at TDC Wink

.....

You're wrong. Huh

You can get the belt on correctly & not get the tensioner set right, conversely everything could be a mile out but have the tensioner set correctly. The tensioner is doing just that, holding the slack side of the cam belt run.
The tensioner has sod all to do with the accuracy of the timing.

How are you checking for top dead centre, the car doesn't have makings for it.

Nope, disagree entirely.

TDC is marked, albeit it poorly. But thats the point of the cranklock.

Back to top

If you are going to kick a car, remember to wear appropriate footwear
Any posts are the result of my own views as a member of OOF, which may or may not be the same as my views as part of the Admin Team.

IP Logged

Kevin Wood

Global Moderator
Admin Team

Offline

Posts: 20377
Alton, Hampshire
Gender: male

Drives: 3.2 MV6 (LPG), Westfield

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #27 - 08. May 2011 at 22:15

TheBoy wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:56:

The tensioner has absolutely everything to do with the timing. Thats why the tensioner has to specifically set at TDC Wink

Agreed. Exact relative positions of the cams and crank determine where the slack in the belt is located, since the valve springs will be acting against the cams and influencing the belt tension.

Next time you've used the kit to correctly time the belt, watch what happens to the tensioner markings as you turn the engine over. All over the place. They are correct for one position of the crank and cams only.

Kevin

Back to top

Tech2 services currently available. See TheBoy's price list: http://theboy.omegaowners.com/

IP Logged

Andy B

Over Active Poster

Offline

Posts: 21988
Bury Lancs
Gender: male

Drives: 1999 3.0 Elite auto/TDM

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #28 - 08. May 2011 at 22:24

Kevin Wood wrote on 08. May 2011 at 22:15:

TheBoy wrote on 08. May 2011 at 21:56:

The tensioner has absolutely everything to do with the timing. Thats why the tensioner has to specifically set at TDC Wink

Agreed. Exact relative positions of the cams and crank determine where the slack in the belt is located, since the valve springs will be acting against the cams and influencing the belt tension.

Next time you've used the kit to correctly time the belt, watch what happens to the tensioner markings as you turn the engine over. All over the place. They are correct for one position of the crank and cams only.

Kevin

So how does a correctly set tensioner have any bearing on where the belt is relative to cams & crank?

Back to top

IP Logged

Andy B

Over Active Poster

Offline

Posts: 21988
Bury Lancs
Gender: male

Drives: 1999 3.0 Elite auto/TDM

Re: DONE CAM BELT CHANGE - NOW IT RUNS RUBBISH!
Reply #29 - 08. May 2011 at 22:32

dbug wrote on 08. May 2011 at 22:25:

....

Read Kevins post mate Wink

I've read it. It's not right either.

Try setting the cam belt in the WRONG place (obviously only a small margin of error is possible unless you've deep pockets) Set the tensioner correctly & watch the tensioner - it'll do exactly the same thing ie 'be all over the place'. It moves because the cank is taking up tension ofn the rest of the belt & the tensioner is doing what it knows best .......... tensioning.

Back to top

IP Logged

This is the old site. Please use the new site.

This is the old site. Please use the new site.

www.omegaowners.com/forum/index.php.

This is the old site. Please use the new site.

	Welcome, Guest. Please Login